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Pokez
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05-01-2006, 01:23 AM
Post subject: Tendancy to leave table soon after a winning streak or big..
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20
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I have this bad habit of leaving the table soon after a winning streak or big hand, because I feel like I will lose that money soon in a bad beat. Is this a rational thing to do? How long do you guys usually stay at the same table, and for what reasons do you leave?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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if i think im better than everyone ill stay and hope to win a pot off of someone else with a big stack.
if im risking a large part of my BR or think the players are good, ill leave.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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You should stay if you're on a heater and leave if you're on a cooler.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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If you feel like leaving (and I know the feeling) it mean you have a confidence problem. (at that one point in time)
However, if you feel like leaving, you better leave.. it means your confidence is hurting and your play is sub-optimal, so better not risk a huge stack when you're on that sentiment. Let's be realistic here and not assume we're always on a high of confidence and playing our A game!
So if you feel like it, leave. If you don't, then it's ok to stay. Hope that makes sense 
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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If I've taken down a huge pot (like 2-4x buy in) and find myself taking riskier propositions, I'd leave. If I find myself playing angry, or my reads are off I'd leave.
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siknd
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 359
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sometimes i will leave because the increase in chips reduces their value to me. suddenly im calling 5x raises heads up with connected cards, raising utg with A9o etc.
however, to leave because you fear a bad beat is strange, so long as you were playing within proper bankroll guidelines to begin with.
that said, a big stack in a cash game is much less of a factor than say a tournament, and i hate having a huge stack against a min-buyin(s) because the implied odds are not in your favor.
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'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I barely ever do this (unless I just knocked out the main fish and he didn't reload) but I think my bankroll would be bigger if I did.
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Margin Of Error
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by siknd
sometimes i will leave because the increase in chips reduces their value to me. suddenly im calling 5x raises heads up with connected cards, raising utg with A9o etc.
however, to leave because you fear a bad beat is strange, so long as you were playing within proper bankroll guidelines to begin with.
that said, a big stack in a cash game is much less of a factor than say a tournament, and i hate having a huge stack against a min-buyin(s) because the implied odds are not in your favor.
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This is my problem. After doubling up once or twice from min-buyin at a table I feel like I can start playing super aggro. Sometimes this results in me chasing after pots I should have folded pre-flop. Smart players will also become more wary of you after winning some big pots, so that in and of itself could be enough reason for some to find a new table.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Don't leave because you predict suck outs, leave if you are not playing your 'A' game.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by siknd
however, to leave because you fear a bad beat is strange, so long as you were playing within proper bankroll guidelines to begin with.
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I like the "protect yourself" adaggio here. Sometimes you register something is wrong but you don't know why, or you identify the wrong reason.
I think this case is a great example. He fears a suck-out.. but in reality what happens is that he starts playing more aggro when he gets a bigger stack, make marginal calls and raises, and runs into better hands a lot more often than usual.
Now, while the reason he identifies for his fear is not good (I'm gonna get a bad beat), the fear in itself *is* justified because he will start to play teh suck after he gets big stacked.
@margin: I think the urge to play aggro there is common, I had that too but it just kinda went away when I got into that position more often.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Usually I just keep playing when I want to play, and I leave when I'm tired or just don't feel like playing anymore.
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strawman
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05-01-2006, 06:43 PM
Post subject: Re: Tendancy to leave table soon after a winning streak or b
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#12 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pokez
I have this bad habit of leaving the table soon after a winning streak or big hand, because I feel like I will lose that money soon in a bad beat. Is this a rational thing to do? How long do you guys usually stay at the same table, and for what reasons do you leave?
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I have a bad habit of staying too long and giving it all back. I'm actually O.K. with this though since I never figured my poker education would be cheap. There's obviously a reason I've doubled or tripled up my stack and there is obvously a reason I give it back . I think the root of the later is ignoring the former.
If all it is is a streak or a big hand than you might be justified in leaving the table, but if its your ability to play that got you the chip stack it would be rather silly to leave. You've found a table where the dynamics fit your style and your taking advantage of it and in leaving you've given up one of the canon's of poker- table selection.
Additionally you are giving up on an excellent learning opportunity. There are many benefits to playing with a large stack. Along with the people who want to chip away at your stack by any means, there will also be those that respect your play since you've done something right in order to get to that point and put up less resistance since they could be playing for all their chips on any given hand against you.
One thing I've noticed about my stack slipping is not paying close enough attention to the shifting dynamics when people leave and new players enter. I've found that I need to tighten up again since I'm noticing a pattern: Player XYZ sits down with a 1/5 max buy-in. Player XYZ does two things- Goes all in after your 6xBB raise or calls and goes all-in on the flop. My perspective of this line has changed dramatically since I've experienced it a few times with a large stack.
Obviously if you are worried about losing your stack you shouldn't play since you will be doing so sub-optimally. Perhaps a happy medium until you feel more comfortable with a big stack is to remove your profits off the table and re-buy. Leaving a table you can take advantage of is probably the worst thing you can to.
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Nova442
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 43
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No, it's not rational. Remember, independent trials? Here's what Negreanu has to say about this
Article Link
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"Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of War."
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parky
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Two Pair
Join Date: May 2006
Location: milwaukee
Posts: 40
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I do the same thing because I am just starting to learn no limit, and I buy in at less than max at the table and when I have doubled up I bank it, because I am still not confident of my play, but I have slowly increased my buy in amount as I have gotten better. Good Luck.
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Nova442
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 43
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Why do you do that though? You're just as likely to lose your money in the first hands of the next table you play at tomorrow as you are on the next hands at your current table.
You can't "lock in" profits, the cards have no memory. I really think it's better to learn the discipline when you win to NOT play scared OR to get too laggy and start throwing away money.
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"Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of War."
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
You should stay if you're on a heater and leave if you're on a cooler.
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Theres no such thing as a heater or a cooler. There's just an individual, independant hand. And then another hand. And then the next.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nova442
Why do you do that though? You're just as likely to lose your money in the first hands of the next table you play at tomorrow as you are on the next hands at your current table.
You can't "lock in" profits, the cards have no memory. I really think it's better to learn the discipline when you win to NOT play scared OR to get too laggy and start throwing away money.
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QFT.
To the OP, you need to learn to stay just as tight and play just as well when you have a 4 buy-in stack as when you just sat down and have 1 buy-in. Its just about discipline and self control. You can't be scared of bad beats, they happen in poker, no matter the size of your stack. Learn to deal with losing 2 buy-ins because of one bad beat and you will learn to love doubling up and making 2 buy-ins in one hand.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
You should stay if you're on a heater and leave if you're on a cooler.
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Theres no such thing as a heater or a cooler. |
NLHE is a game of Psychology and perception is reality.
Our opponents play differently against us when we're catching everything vs when we can't catch a break.
If I'm running bad, I'm more inclined to leave all but the most wildly profitable tables. Running bad does cut into your edge. You're probably off your game and your opponents are inspired to play better against you.
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Monty9
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: new jwesey
Posts: 255
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I like this thread, hope im not too late.
In used to do the same thing. either worry about loosing my stack & usually end up loosing it.
One of the biggest things to recognize is the dynamics of the table.
As mentioned you have to watch for the changing players and for me it was to shift my style of play depending on how long I was at the table before my run or big pot. You have to expect the players around you to "tag" you as 'tight', 'loose', 'maniac' etc.
My biggest mistakes was not ajusting to the table as the table adjusted to me.
A perfect example was over the weekend I sat at a $50 nl table.
Table was tight as hell so I upped the agression and was stealing pots like crazy. Then I got caught in a couple of showdowns with marginal hands and I started getting called and reraised alot.
WARNING.
I the past I would have kept pumping it up. That session I slowed it down, tightened it up and before the table caught on I caught KK and raised.
Got called and reraised and ended up stacking a guy to double up. He was still thinking about the first hour of the session when I was agro.
I still laugh at the times when a player changes and I don't notice it.
The first guys was tight as hell and you have been stealing on him all day. He raises and you reraise him and BAM he comes over the top.
WTF you think and then notice his name. OOPs wrong guy!!!
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you have to put your 2 cents in??
Somebody's making a penny!!
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