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Taking shots, getting 3-bet

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zook

01-18-2007, 09:29 PM Post subject: Taking shots, getting 3-bet

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Been taking some shots at 200NL FR recently and the biggest difference I'm noticing is that I'm getting 3-bet pre-flop a lot more. I've been folding the vast majority of the time, except once when I 4-bet shoved with TT on the button and BB showed KK and a few times when I've called in position with suited broadways or a mid-pp.

Any advice for when I should be cold-calling 3-bets or 4-betting? Should I ever 4-bet and not shove, with 100BB effective stacks? How many times does an unknown villain have to 3-bet without showing down before I assume he's a light 3-bettor? How much should my ranges change in and out of position?

I know I'm asking for a master's thesis here, so answer whatever parts of this you want...

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bigslikk

01-18-2007, 10:23 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

I would say 4 bets are pretty much shoves (at 100BB) unless there's been a lot of pussy raises. There comes a point (the reraise is oftentimes one of them) when you know the guy is willing to die with his hand, no matter what it is.
typical scenario: raise to 4xBB, reraise to 16xBB, what's your 4-bet gonna be, 50xBB? You might as well tell him you have aces. Make that last bet a 100BB one.

IowaSkinsFan

01-18-2007, 11:25 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

call in position and bluff a lot of turns.

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Miffed22001

01-19-2007, 12:15 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

start raising the odds preflop.
AK becomes a lot more powerful at 200nl i found when you start threatening to felt it preflop against people who will reraise 99/TT/JJ as well as the typical range.
Either that or call the reraise with big hands and trap on the flop.

IowaSkinsFan

01-19-2007, 02:52 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

I think outplaying them on the flop is underrated.

PokerStars Game #8007271501: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/18 - 19:08:37 (ET)
Table 'Honoria IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: boostNslide ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 3: bmxreed36 ($123.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Tecknowledgy ($544.65 in chips)
Seat 5: Nick Dollar ($90.75 in chips)
Seat 6: redgrape ($242.75 in chips)
bmxreed36: posts small blind $0.50
Tecknowledgy: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Ac 5s]
Nick Dollar: folds
redgrape: raises $3 to $4
boostNslide: folds
bmxreed36: folds
Tecknowledgy: raises $10 to $14
redgrape: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [3c 2d Qc]
Tecknowledgy: bets $22
redgrape: calls $22
*** TURN *** [3c 2d Qc] [9c]
Tecknowledgy: checks
redgrape: bets $45
Tecknowledgy: calls $45
*** RIVER *** [3c 2d Qc 9c] [8s]
Tecknowledgy: checks
redgrape: bets $120
boostNslide said, "teck you have lotz of monies"
boostNslide said, "will you have my babies?"
Tecknowledgy: folds
redgrape collected $160.50 from pot
redgrape: shows [Ac 5s] (high card Ace)

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zook

01-21-2007, 02:26 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Ok, here's an example of how far I am from having a 3-bet strategy. Villain sat down 2 orbits ago, no stats yet, but he's been loose/aggressive pre-flop, seems to have been in almost every hand. This is the second time he's 3-bet me. Easy push? Call and try to milk him post-flop?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $1/$2 - 9 players - Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $208.90
UTG+1: $164.55
MP1: $202.15
MP2: $169.95
MP3: $181.55
CO: $182.65
Button: $188
SB: $248.35
BB: $92.15

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with K

Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $25, 5 folds, Hero...

Miffed22001

01-21-2007, 10:32 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

hero can call here if he choses and c/r all in on flop or raises to $40-60ish and pushes the flop or some sort of line like that.

Genitruc

01-21-2007, 07:56 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

yeah call and c/r a lot of flops without an ace

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

IowaSkinsFan

01-23-2007, 02:47 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Anyone for taking a flop?
PokerStars Game #8077007614: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/22 - 22:43:00 (ET)
Table 'Boucolion' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: LanderD ($277.15 in chips)
Seat 2: AngeL_fH ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 3: rohring ($48.55 in chips)
Seat 4: kurtmo5 ($95.55 in chips)
Seat 5: redgrape ($242.70 in chips)
Seat 6: gotchaflush ($128 in chips)
LanderD: posts small blind $0.50
AngeL_fH: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Kc Th]
rohring: folds
kurtmo5: folds
redgrape: raises $3 to $4
gotchaflush: calls $4
LanderD: raises $12 to $16
AngeL_fH: folds
redgrape: calls $12
gotchaflush: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d Js 2d]
LanderD: bets $22
redgrape: calls $22
*** TURN *** [5d Js 2d] [As]
LanderD: checks
redgrape: bets $45
LanderD: folds
redgrape collected $78 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $81 | Rake $3
Board [5d Js 2d As]
Seat 1: LanderD (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: AngeL_fH (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: rohring folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: kurtmo5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: redgrape collected ($78)
Seat 6: gotchaflush (button) folded before Flop

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dev

01-23-2007, 06:31 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Oh look a c-bet!
*buys pot*
Oh look a blocking bet!
*buys pot*
Oh look a c-beter checked an Ace high board after raising preflop!
*buys pot*

but, really... that's not what this post was about.

I look at it like this... If my opponent is good enough to know he's beat preflop if I 3-bet, then I stop and go. If he's not, I figure out how quick I can get all the money in.

I've layed kings preflop before(just never online), so I know there are some lower staked players that are capable of such folds. Try to give credit where it's due. When you're heads-up, you don't have to worry so much about statistics or standard lines as you do about what kind of a player your against.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

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