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Taking a break from playing to learn poker

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Reidak

05-22-2006, 05:08 PM Post subject: Taking a break from playing to learn poker

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Hey, I've been on a recent downswing as of late.

Few weeks ago I was up around 300$ after investing 100, so i cashed my 100 so id be playing on pure profit (im low stakes). As of then, I had been playing alot of 5's and 10's thinking since id been winning id win again. Im down to about 65$ now and i've decided I can either a) keep taking shots in the dark hoping to win a $4 180 and get it all back or b) take some time off playing poker (i usually play daily) or a couple times a week most - for the sole purpose to practice what im learning.

I have also decided to drop my stakes back down to micro during this time, playin 1$ 18's and 45's maybe. I don't know really. All i know is that I'm up alot in real life (few hundred - like i said im low stakes :P ) and if i want to improve my game what im doing now will help me get nowhere-fast.

Anyways after that little sphleel of things on my mind im looking for a bit of guidance from people who know better. I'm looking to invest in some poker books to learn the finer points of holdem. Im good in the sense that i am capable of waiting a long time for my good hands to come. My play % for most of my tourneys is around 16%, almost all of which occur in the BB. But when I get them it's hard for me to know how to maximize the profit. When im not aggresive enough I get sucked out and when im over aggressive i lose out on profit.

I'd also like to learn some of the lingo and math that's all too often used in the forums (equity etc.) and id liek to learn how to use Poker Tracker since a friend of mine gave me his copy.

Anyways, wish me luck in my break from playing and begginning of true learning.

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flotu

05-22-2006, 05:46 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 304

Sounds like a good plan! Take a couple of weeks off and read Harrington on holdem (both of them would be good). Post some hands you consider tough here and listen to what others think.

jackvance

05-22-2006, 05:48 PM Post subject: Re: Taking a break from playing to learn poker

#3 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jishu

Im good in the sense that i am capable of waiting a long time for my good hands to come.

Great skill to have on loose tables. I lack this one, badly.

Quote:

Anyways, wish me luck in my break from playing and begginning of true learning.

Good luck man. I had the great fortune of running into FTR and doing the math and all that at the dawn of my poker career. It has helped me heaps. Hope it can do the same for you.

martindcx1e

05-22-2006, 06:11 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

learn full-ring NL

Renton

05-22-2006, 06:53 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

I'd recommend you build a decent roll at ring or sng's before you tackle tourneys.

Besides, even if you multitable the 4.40/180's at a decent ROI, you'll only make like $2 an hour.

donkbee

05-22-2006, 07:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

WELP

Join Date: May 2005

Location: so close but so far

Posts: 3,604

Good luck. Read read read. Ask a lot of questions.

I agree that you should hold off on the MTTs for now. When you get back to playing, perhaps redeposit that $100 and play the 1 table $5.50s until you get your roll up to $300 again. After that, either move to the multitable $5.50s or move to the 1 table $11s. It's important to get a good grip on SnGs and make sure that you actually know how to play (because for all you know, that roll increase to $300 could have been luck). Play the occasional MTT, but don't make it your main game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

Rondavu

05-22-2006, 08:10 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

It's a process.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

flomo

05-22-2006, 08:12 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: mashing potatoes

Posts: 878

try to stay away from playing MTT's and promotional games(TV, bad beat, and other lotteries of poker), that stuff is for gambloors,fish and donks. concentrate on SST's and/or ring to build your br.

just read all the posts above and below for building a br and improving your game

good luck
flomo

congrats courtie on breaking 1K

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Protect dog

Reidak

05-22-2006, 08:13 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Thanks for the encouragement.

Once im back home ill post up some hands since I have A bunch in my documents.

Thanks for the book advice, although im getting my poker books off ebay because I was at the book store today and found that after tax theory wouldve cost me 40$ and im not even sure if they had harrington

It's going to be hard since I've got a love for poker, not just for the money but just becuase I love to win regardless of what im doing.

Anyways, to be honest im a fairly smart person, always did well in school and excelled in things that I put my mind to. If I give this poker studying thing a real shot, a couple hours a night of studying and a couple hoursa week of playing to practice my new skills, posting hands on here and taking the advice to heart, would it be a fair assumption that I would see a noticeable change in my game, and if so how long would it take. Because right now im just feelin like a complete rookie who waits for his hand to come, then always finds that im either all in or not getting enough out of it. It just seems like the great players (not the chumps who get lucky then talk smack onthe chat) have a plan, and they know what im going to do, and they get all the chips im willing to spend on that hand into their stacks.

Might be alot to ask, but I know alot of people here on FTR are near pro quality, and should know better than anyone else.

donkbee

05-22-2006, 08:31 PM

#10 (permalink)

WELP

Join Date: May 2005

Location: so close but so far

Posts: 3,604

Quote:

Originally Posted by flomo

congrats courtie on breaking 1K

Thank you very much, flomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

Xanadu

05-22-2006, 08:53 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

Playing 16% may be ok when the blinds get bigger, but in the first 2 or 3 rounds of a tourney, if the table allows, you should be taking some shots (I believe Harrington mentions this in his book). You must accumulate chips, and by waiting too much, playing too tight, you virtually guarantee you will eventually blind out before you get enough good hands to win often enough to turn a decent profit. And the money is in 1st place.

So, my advice is to loosen up in position and in the right situations while the blinds are low. Play mid suited connectors and one gappers and any pocket pair if you think you can get a cheap flop. Example:

1000 starting chips, blinds at 15/30, UTG min-raises to 60, there are 2 callers and you are on the button with 89s. You should take a shot here and call. you are getting almost 4:1 and will get 5:1 if both blinds call. The key is not to bleed chips on this, so unless you hit 2pair or a good draw, you will be done with the hand on the flop. If one of the blinds raises big (say to 200) and there is only one caller of that raise, you should fold. But the risk is small and the potential reward is huge.

jackvance

05-22-2006, 09:01 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Yeah big stacks compared to the blinds are a heaven for suited connectors and gappers. This is a thing I generally like about MTTs.. when they progress, the tactics you have to employ change drastically, and not too many people can cope with these changes. Another example is at the FT with like 5 people left.. if you're still playing by your longhanded experience here, you're dead in the water. Or if it gets to the final 1v1. The difference in payout between 1st and 2nd is usually pretty significant, but HU is almost a different game of texas hold'em if you're not used to it..

I read a great article, forgot where though, about how you should practice tons of SnGs if you're going to be taking MTTs seriously. The reason is that you won't make FT too often, but you really need to get practice in this environment, because once you get there the difference in $$ is huge compared to where you end. If you only play MTTs, you won't get enough FT experience to be able to compete there. Wish I could give the link, the article explained it really well.

Reidak

05-23-2006, 12:03 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Yeah, my final table play is usually steal blinds and let other people fight it out to get me more money, but im always willing to takea stab if i've got a good hand.

It's so tempting to play on my stars.. just itching to make my money back. But I know I have to stop myself and learn more if i ever want to succeed with this in the long term.

Halv

05-23-2006, 01:28 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Location: No hindsight for the blind.

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When I first started (strike that, actually it was after I went busto on my initial 200NOK/~30$ deposit) I wanted to get an inital bankroll going with as low risk as possible. So what I did was go to Pacific and make a $400 deposit which I cashed out again right away. That gave me 100$ that I used to start building my roll. The bonus is given in advance and can be played with right from the go, and the games over there are really soft.

(I'll put a little spam in here as well; if you want, I could refer you there, you'll get an extra $25 and I'll get an extra $5o. PM me if you want. Mods: feel free to edit this post and/or notify me if this is breaking the rules.)

Edit:
fwiw I think you already have what might be the most important thing in poker: the correct mindset (or at least you know not to listen to that itching impatience that makes too many players go broke again and again).

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)

Reidak

05-23-2006, 02:16 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Yeah thanks it feels really good, since when ive been playin poker and i lost it felt like I was just digging myself deeper into a hole, and now im doing the opposite, by not playing and getting the knowledge. In a couple weeks when my exams are over and ive got more free time, and ive read up on poker, ill return. Even if i lose it all playing my new game ill be happy since I know im playing better and in the long run its beneficial

Halv

05-23-2006, 02:20 AM

#16 (permalink)

pro crastinator
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Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

One word of caution: don't get too advanced at the lower levels. Most of the players there will not understand the great plays you might make on them. So play a solid, ABC type game and save the more fancy moves for later on.

Edit: and don't lose it all :P

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)

Reidak

05-23-2006, 02:43 AM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Yeah the lower levels are a breeze, but I'd still like to try some of the things out. probably have to play a good week on micros to get my BR back to around where id like it to be. 500 million.

Reidak

05-23-2006, 03:13 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Well I said I'd post up some of my hands for analysis. One of my hands is completely, undeniably unavoidable. If you miss it you need help.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button (t2110)
SB (t1370)
BB (t1315)
UTG (t1850)
Hero (t450)
MP1 (t1400)
MP2 (t690)
CO (t10875)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 2

, A

.
1 fold, Hero calls t30, 1 fold, MP2 calls t30, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 9

, 7

, A

(4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t420 (All-In), MP2 folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: t540

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button (t1725)
SB (t920)
Hero (t1380)
UTG (t1470)
UTG+1 (t2960)
MP1 (t860)
MP2 (t4070)
CO (t2085)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, J

.
3 folds, MP2 calls t20, CO calls t20, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to t1380, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls t900 (All-In).

Flop: (t2340) 7

, 5

, 6

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2340) 6

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2340) K

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2340

RESULT: Guy won with KJ offsuit.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 (t6695)
MP1 (t27700)
MP2 (t4838)
MP3 (t12159)
CO (t620)
Button (t10255)
Hero (t10550)
BB (t5895)
UTG (t15500)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6

, 6

.
UTG calls t200, 6 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t700) A

, 6

, 3

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

Turn: (t700) 8

(3 players)
Hero bets t200, BB folds, UTG calls t200.

River: (t1100) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t200, Hero raises to t650, UTG raises to t15075, Hero calls t9475 (All-In).

Final Pot: t26300

RESULT: Guy had Aces. Can you say ***, *****, ********

Halv

05-23-2006, 03:40 AM

#19 (permalink)

pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

Hand 1: I fold preflop.
Hand 2: why are you pushing t1300 into a t60 pot? (tilt?)
Hand 3: I lead flop, bet more on turn and lose all my chips on the river.

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)

Xanadu

05-23-2006, 04:06 AM

#20 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

That hand converter counts pots like the announcer on High Stakes Poker on tv:

'Negreanu takes down a pot worth over $650,000.' When he bets 500,000 into a 150,000 pot and no one calls him.

Reidak

05-23-2006, 04:13 AM

#21 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

I pushed with my AJ becuase the table was being real loose and someone jsut did the same tihng and got called by a limper. I also noticed alot of people were limping in with quality hands.

Full Ring Grinder.

THE BLOG!
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ts-t76696.html

biondino

05-23-2006, 11:02 AM

#22 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,170

Still a terrible move I'm afraid - there's just no call to risk your tournament for 60 chips. The A2 push was pretty appalling too as it would only be called by someone who beat you.

Reidak

05-23-2006, 01:51 PM

#23 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

Well I guess thats why im taking a break from poker to learn :P. Want to learn how to ply those hands better.

Reidak

05-25-2006, 10:32 PM

#24 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

I'm in the process of looking for harrington on holdem. Since im pretty much broke 30$ US for a book is pretty steep. God knows how long itll take to get into my library, i just posted a request for it. I'm guessing its worth the investment though, since im a huge fan of tourneys as opposed to ring games.

Full Ring Grinder.

THE BLOG!
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ts-t76696.html

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