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NaXus
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10-02-2008, 12:02 AM
Post subject: Suckouts
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 12
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I'm getting sucked out every hand i'm playing... I first started of at Poker stars with 10 dollars and then worked my way up to 500 dollars and after that i'v just been so unlucky all the time. I just can't win a single hand and this have been going on for about 3 weeks and i'v been taking breaks but i't won't get better, i'v even tried diffrent poker sites but it still happens there. Have anyone else had theese long downswings and what do you guys do when it happens?
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
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Use proper Bankroll management. As long as you understand that, you'll understand how to deal with it.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Learn to be honest with yourself and use bankroll management
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Definition of Sucking out: You got all the money in as a huge favorite, and they won the hand.
22 vs AK losing to a spiked king is NOT a suckout.
AA vs KK losing to a rivered king when you got all the money in on the flop IS a suckout.
Also, proper bankroll management FTW.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Here's a really good post by taipan about bad beats:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...st-t61079.html
Take some time to read the other threads in the Beginners Digest when you get the chance - it will be time well spent.
Welcome to FTR!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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NaXus
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 12
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Quote:
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AA vs KK losing to a rivered king when you got all the money in on the flop IS a suckout
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That's exactly what happens.
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NaXus
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 12
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Thanks courtiebee 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NaXus
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AA vs KK losing to a rivered king when you got all the money in on the flop IS a suckout
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That's exactly what happens. |
This stuff doesn't happen too often or not often enough, but happens EXACTLY the amount of time it's supposed to, so you shouldn't feel bad or offended when it happens to you.
Just something to keep in mind.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Monty3038
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 788
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NaXus
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AA vs KK losing to a rivered king when you got all the money in on the flop IS a suckout
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That's exactly what happens. |
This stuff doesn't happen too often or not often enough, but happens EXACTLY the amount of time it's supposed to, so you shouldn't feel bad or offended when it happens to you.
Just something to keep in mind. |
Also, reading in I think either Phil Gordon's Book or Ace on the River... remembering the bad beats and suck outs is easier than remembering the wins and times you sucked out on someone else... it's a mental thing, all psycology (spelling?)
I've been playing about 6-8 months total and can remember a LOT of bad beats, but when you check your stats long term, you'll find that playing the hands correctly makes you ahead in the long run... bad beats happen... Bankroll Management is important, keep swinging for the fences when you are ahead, the home runs will come.
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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Also, remember that if you are an above average player, you will suffer more suckouts than bad players do. This is simply because you get your money in good more often than the bad players do, so you are more prone to the suckout.
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Sue me if I play too long....
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but when new players tend to lose a ton of hands, they want to blame it on suckouts. Sure, you're going to get hit by some bad beats, shit happens. But too many noobs tend to complain about suckouts when in reality it's more of them playing the hands poorly than anything else.
Post some hands.
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NaXus
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but when new players tend to lose a ton of hands, they want to blame it on suckouts. Sure, you're going to get hit by some bad beats, shit happens. But too many noobs tend to complain about suckouts when in reality it's more of them playing the hands poorly than anything else.
Post some hands.
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I'v been having some suckouts and bad beats before and then i just thought "so what it's poker" but now recently i just getting bad beats and suckouts every good hand i'm playing. Sorry i can't post hands because i have to little forum posts but i can tell you about a hand i played about an hour ago.
I had JJ on the button and everyone folds to the cut-off and he raises to 0,40 cents, i reraise him to 1.50 and he calls. Flop came J99 and he checks to me and i check aswell, turn came K and he bets pot about 3 dollars, i reraise him to 7 and he goes all-in and i call. River came A so the board shows J99KA and he shows AA and wins the pot.
It's like this everytime lately, i guess i just have to take a break or something and hope i don't have to see all theese badbeats when i come back :P
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The end result here was indeed a suckout because you got your money in while ahead. But... Why on earth did you check behind on the button with a flopped boat, especially when you had re-raised preflop?! Granted he probably would have shoved over the top but still... 
Just know if you play your cards right (  ) everything will even out in the end.
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NaXus
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 12
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I'm playing 0,5-0,10 and most of the players arent experienced at all so i thought it would be a nice move to check behind and let him bet out on the turn because that's what most of them do.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
The end result here was indeed a suckout because you got your money in while ahead. But... Why on earth did you check behind on the button with a flopped boat, especially when you had re-raised preflop?! Granted he probably would have shoved over the top but still...
Just know if you play your cards right ( ) everything will even out in the end. |
It's fairly obviously correct to check there.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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That flop is one of the perfect times to slowplay. You have the deck crushed, check and hope he somehow improves to a straight or hits a good pair.
I find deliberately acknowledging the times I suckout helps me keep an even head when I get sucked out on in return.
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Just playing to improve.
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Difference of opinion, I can handle that. The fact I knew villain had AA swayed me not to slow play. Don't post results! 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
Difference of opinion, I can handle that. The fact I knew villain had AA swayed me not to slow play. Don't post results! |
Suppose Villain's range is QQ+, AK. Then there are 16 combinations of AK and 18 combinations of QQ+. Betting gets no value from AK.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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I guess it depends on the villain, at least to me. If he expects me to c-bet (which I maniacally do by the way, thanks Doyle) then I bet, especially if I've been habitually 3-betting.
BUT, looking at the facts presented it looks like the slow play is the right more times than not. Thanks spoonaroony!
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
I guess it depends on the villain, at least to me. If he expects me to c-bet (which I maniacally do by the way, thanks Doyle) then I bet, especially if I've been habitually 3-betting.
BUT, looking at the facts presented it looks like the slow play is the right more times than not. Thanks spoonaroony!
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Something critical here is that we're able to get it all in with only two streets of betting assuming we had ~100bb starting stacks. Preflop we 3-bet to 15bb and Villain calls. On the flop the pot is ~30bb and we have ~85bb behind. What happens is if we bet say 25bb and villain calls, the pot is 80bb and we have 60bb behind on the next street. So against AA for example, we don't lose any value since we can still get all of their stack.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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bigstock2001
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JESUP
Posts: 142
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I have just came off of a 3month drought on cards. I have had sets cracked to gutshot straight draws. I have had tons of bad luck happened but i have learned one thing from this. If your not carefull it will change the way you play and that happened to me. I started thinking when i entered pots I wonder what is going to beat me this time.
1. The one thing i did to change this is drop down a few levels and start from the basics.
2. I only played one buy in if i loss that i would spend the rest of the day reading on FTR or some other poker books.
3. I spent some time evaluating things in my life. Just to make sure that family issues or job issues wasn't effecting the way I play.
Like i said this went on for about 3 months and some of that reason was i had changed my style of play to try and protect myself. The end result is play with consistancy and spend more time evaluating hand histories and use this time to fix holes in your games. Hope this helps
Don
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bigstock2001
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10-03-2008, 05:08 PM
Post subject: I'v been having some suckouts and bad beats before and then
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#22 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JESUP
Posts: 142
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I'v been having some suckouts and bad beats before and then i just thought "so what it's poker" but now recently i just getting bad beats and suckouts every good hand i'm playing. Sorry i can't post hands because i have to little forum posts but i can tell you about a hand i played about an hour ago.
I had JJ on the button and everyone folds to the cut-off and he raises to 0,40 cents, i reraise him to 1.50 and he calls. Flop came J99 and he checks to me and i check aswell, turn came K and he bets pot about 3 dollars, i reraise him to 7 and he goes all-in and i call. River came A so the board shows J99KA and he shows AA and wins the pot.
It's like this everytime lately, i guess i just have to take a break or something and hope i don't have to see all theese badbeats when i come back
Quote:
I think this is an example of a hand that was played wrong. Not so much a bad beat. I am not trying to be rude but the reason i feel like this is becouse. Preflop you was beat. Than when the flop came out you was ahead. Instead of pushing on the flop after all the betting preflop you chose to slow play. Now in his view with the check check on the flop I have to put you on something like ak or kk qq when the betting continues on the turn. So he hit an ace on the river, This hand should have been pushed on the flop in hopes to end it there Just my opinion. Sorry did not mean to take away from the post.
Don
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settecba
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: stealing blinds from UTG
Posts: 326
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
I guess it depends on the villain, at least to me. If he expects me to c-bet (which I maniacally do by the way, thanks Doyle) then I bet, especially if I've been habitually 3-betting.
BUT, looking at the facts presented it looks like the slow play is the right more times than not. Thanks spoonaroony!
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actually Doyle says this is one of the times you should slowplay...
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