Originally Posted by dreamover

How often is the 10 4 of clubs going to hold up post flop, do you selectively only play that with a few callers to better the odds ?

Originally Posted by bigred

I think it's a good idea to keep in mind that this is $10NL and it sounds like most players arne't even deep stacked. Lack of deep stacks usually cuts down on your implied odds which actually decreases your want to open your range of suited/draw hands.

When I play, I will play Axs, suited connectors, suited gappers, and the occasional suited 2 gapper in late position. If your table lacks action (which i doubt in 10NL) you can also raise these hands in late to build up pots for when you hit and also take down a few pots and create a little action. Unless you're trying to make a move or a laggy player, I don't think 4Ts will be an effective hand to play.

Originally Posted by Blinky

Hi dreamover.

Stop calling preflop or limping preflop simply because you have any two suited cards. Just stop. It's one of the biggest leaks for any beginning player.

You should be playing cards based on rank with suitedness as a very secondary consideration. For reference, the rough advantage that suited cards have over unsuiteds (say AKo vs AKs) is only about 2-3%.

The concrete answer is, there is no concrete answer. In general though playing cards simply because they're suited will generally cost you much money in the long run.

I would suggest weaning yourself from charts and learning that hand strength is highly relative... and stop playing suited hands solely cuz they're suited.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

A Flush draw has no natural implied odds. The only board that can make one for you is a board that scares your opponent. Therefore there's a serious reduction in future opponent action (implied odds) after your flush is made, and it rarely makes up for what you payed to chase it.

I play Ax and Kx suited in position with limpers in front of me. Otherwise I fold it like the plague. This was not always my policy. As I got better, and learned about implied odds, it became obvious to me. There are some exceptions, but they're read based.

When you have position with these hands, you can bet or raise healthy into weakness on the flop before your hand is made on a semibluff, since you have between 9-12 outs. This also conceals the fact that you're drawing, and your opponent may pay the pot after your flush is made.

Hands that have natural implied odds are...

-Low pocket pairs
-Dominating hands (AK over AQ)
-Weird mid connectors and gappers

Originally Posted by biondino

A myth from above: suited cards are worth 2-3% more than the same cards unsuited IN TERMS OF WHICH IS MORE LIKELY TO WIN ANY GIVEN HAND. Where they differ is in the *amount* of money each is likely to win.

While flushes are easily spotted, and easily folded to, they are also often the stone cold nuts and bad players will bet into or, more likely, call bets aginst the nut flush often enough to make them considerably more profitable than the same cards unsuited. Being able to add flushes to pairs, two pair, sets and straights in your winning armoury makes a big difference.

The flip side of the coin is, as already stated, that it is VERY easy to overplay suited cards. A lot of people call bets with bad odds because they have found themselves with a flush draw; a lot of people play with substandard hands because they are suited, then carry on playing them even when their suitedness becomes irrelevant (for example, TKs on a Kxx rainbow board - you end up calling three bets and lose to AK when you'd have folded pre-flop if it had been unsutied).

After 35,000 recorded hands, my WORST in terms of loss per hand is AJs. Only one of my worst ten performing starting hands is off-suit. Makes you think, eh...

Originally Posted by dreamover

...
Im curious SPECIFICALLY about the nut flush draw and what to come in with preflop.

...
Im curious on peoples opinions about playing the K high, and the Q high draw, and in what position. Clearly some people play these hands and are profitable with them, my question is, when do they play them and how do they play them ? On the button only ? Never ? Sometimes ? Why ? How do you bet a Q high flush ? or a K high flush ? How often is a Q high or K high flush up against the A flush ? Does anybody have odds on that ?

Thanks.