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aka_red
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09-28-2008, 10:41 PM
Post subject: Struggling with the micros? ITT I help.
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 871
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If you can't beat the micro-micros (<25NL) you are:
1) retarded.
or
2) doing something fundamentally wrong.
Now, if your convinced it's not 1. You better fucking figure out 2. Cut the bitching and moaning because it really is not that difficult to figure out. You claim your not retarded, remember?
Solutions:
1) Latch onto the nuts of a player a level or two above you. They are most likely understanding the basics which is something you obviously struggle with.
2) Get a coach or subscription to a video training site. An invaluable assets that will accelerate your learning to the nth power.
3) Drop the ego. You suck. Your at the bottom of the totem pole so keep your fucking mouth shut. Quit the bitching, it's not variance. You are just that bad. We gotta break you down before we can build you up.
4) http://www.spoonitnow.com/videos/mirc.html
or, the fail safe.
5) /wrists
So take your pick.
1) Put in work. Become successful.
2) Change nothing. Accept your results.
3) Tell me to fuck off. Get owned.
This comes off harsh because its intended to be. This should be a fucking wake up call to you guys. I'm sick and tired of you kids pissing and moaning about how you can't beat the micros. Fucking do something about it. Nobody should have to hold your hand. If your looking for a quick fix ZOMG instant-success. Go Fuck Yourself. Everyone reputable here has put in work. Your no exception.
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fat-b
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 117
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you have a frush! Q high baby. ur speciality !
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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As harsh as it sounds the man speaks the truth. If you truly wish to succeed, and you aren't, then you probably aren't doing enough. Reading and replying to threads on FTR is one thing, and while it has its merits in helping individuals get better, it shouldn't be the end all to your success. You also need to read books, find situations in which you don't know how to react and work through the solutions, listen and learn from others better than you, watch videos, play hands, try.
I don't know how many times it has been said, but if you truly want to get better go to the flopturnriver internet relay chat channel and you will get better. I promise you. Just look around at your peers here in the BC, and look at the ones who are moving through the stakes the fastest, understanding the game more fully, and there is a good chance those individuals frequent #flopturnriver.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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I've been playing online for a year and a half... I started from 0 and currently I'm not very far off. I play an average of 3 hours a week with month long breaks in between. A rough estimate is that I've played 100k hands online so far - in 18 months.
That involved a lot of learning by doing. I'm pretty sure you can play a top-10 sklansky hand selection and you'll have a hard time not to make a profit, but most people want to figure stuff out by themselves and that can be a long process.
For anyone to get good at anything it takes DAILY practice. If you want to learn something you have to put in at least an hour every day, and that's true for pretty much everything you can do. If you have the time to play an hour of poker a day, you'll learn in 6 months what other people won't learn in a lifetime, but not everybody has the time and ambition to do that.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
I've been playing online for a year and a half... I started from 0 and currently I'm not very far off. I play an average of 3 hours a week with month long breaks in between. A rough estimate is that I've played 100k hands online so far - in 18 months.
That involved a lot of learning by doing. I'm pretty sure you can play a top-10 sklansky hand selection and you'll have a hard time not to make a profit, but most people want to figure stuff out by themselves and that can be a long process.
For anyone to get good at anything it takes DAILY practice. If you want to learn something you have to put in at least an hour every day, and that's true for pretty much everything you can do. If you have the time to play an hour of poker a day, you'll learn in 6 months what other people won't learn in a lifetime, but not everybody has the time and ambition to do that.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, the fact of the matter is the wheel has been invented. Granted, we would not have rocket ships planes etc. if we had just stopped there. However, that process was a long line of fails before it was perfected. Mostly with work done by people with a lot of background in those areas. I would not recommend trying to invent teleportation devices without having a strong understanding of the theories and procesess involved.
You understand why you have not succeeded you simply do not or have not put the time in. This is what I'm trying to get other players to understand
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Start
April 13
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Current
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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wow i was expecting this to be trolling but it is actually good advice.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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LMAO This is one of the best posts ever and goes along with Spoon's "Encouragement for Beginners" post about buckling down and getting serious or find a new fucking hobby.
Kinda reminds of something 'Red and Andy' spoke of while in Shawshank - "Get busy living or get busy dying".
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
I don't know how many times it has been said, but if you truly want to get better go to the flopturnriver internet relay chat channel and you will get better. I promise you. Just look around at your peers here in the BC, and look at the ones who are moving through the stakes the fastest, understanding the game more fully, and there is a good chance those individuals frequent #flopturnriver.
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I've done a lot of work in making the channel well-known here, and I even put in a lot of time pestering the right people to make sure that it got up and running. I went through that because of this.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, terrorising the micros
Posts: 5,502
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by red when ya gonna pay me for some coaching dude? sample size? whatever...
You suck. Your at the bottom of the totem pole so keep your fucking mouth shut. Quit the bitching, it's not variance. You are just that bad. We gotta break you down before we can build you up.
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a little bit harsh red.... And i don't think that been broken down is a necessary step in this journey...
another two recommendations (and this is in no way criticising IRC!!! that shit can be gold, although it can also be a little less than golden at times)
1) Post hands with your thought processes - in the appropriate forums. Take time to digest the replies.
2) Comment, with clear reasoning, on the hands posted by others. This is a type of study for those who don't feel like sitting and studying for hours on end. Best way to do this is with a notebook (or notepad on screen) and write your response while reading the posted hand and situation. People will comment on your thought process, and you can see how others perceive the same situation.
I don't recommend paying for coaching. Maybe that's cos I'm too cheap to do it, hell, I can't even fork out 5% of my FPPs for a 3 month subscription to cardrunners...
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
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Originally Posted by red when ya gonna pay me for some coaching dude? sample size? whatever...
You suck. Your at the bottom of the totem pole so keep your fucking mouth shut. Quit the bitching, it's not variance. You are just that bad. We gotta break you down before we can build you up.
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a little bit harsh red.... And i don't think that been broken down is a necessary step in this journey... |
It's not said in the kindest of words, but I don't think the message is that far off, if at all. Too many players have a chip on their shoulder. They think they are Yahweh's Gift to Poker. And that because they have beat a certain microstakethey are good to go. Then they hit a roadblock, and because they once thought they were the golden child, they stall. This is mainly in part to them not being able to get over the fact that they weren't as good as they originally thought. And the players are too stubborn to say "ya know what? I guess I wasn't that good. Here's what I need to do better".
But in all honestly, I think the most blantant and obvious thing Red was trying to get across is that noone wants to hold another players hand, and tell him what to do. It's simple that every good player had to put in work to get there. If you coddle the player, they will not learn. This doesn't mean you have to ignore them, but instead of telling them the answer, point them in the right direction. Because it is true the journey is more important than the destination.
If a player truly wants to improve, he will. And his greatest improvements will come through studying on his own, formulating well thought out questions to ask and discuss, and figuring out why he always makes that mistake in this situation. If a player only says he wants to get better, but doesn't really have the drive (willpower) to do so, then no matter how many times an individual reaches out to help him, it will not help.
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hagscel
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: in seclusion
Posts: 61
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this is no spam....
i strongly request: coaching....mentoring.....pokerbuddy(s)
i heavily invest: dedication and engagement
i need: another 3 posts to at least post handhistories in an eyefriendly manner.
i will make use of irc.
hags
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DaddyDeez
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: missoula, MT
Posts: 113
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fuck off
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I post nonconstructive piss
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaddyDeez
fuck off
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redzilla may be uncompromising but he is correct.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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DaddyDeez
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: missoula, MT
Posts: 113
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaddyDeez
fuck off
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redzilla may be uncompromising but he is correct. |
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3) Tell me to fuck off. Get owned.
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i wasnt serious, i dont wanna get owned 
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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lol sorry i fail at reading.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I think people overestimate the number of noobies who are arrogant. You see one or two and paint everyone with the same brush. I'd say the majority are honestly eager to learn and either still getting their feet or struggling with some aspect, or they just havnt clicked to the best use of their time to progress. I really dont think we needed another "fuck noobs if they wont put in the effort" post so soon after Spoons, but I guess imitation is flattery/etc. Someone else will probably think Spoons cool and do the same again in a week or two.
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Just playing to improve.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
I think people overestimate the number of noobies who are arrogant. You see one or two and paint everyone with the same brush. I'd say the majority are honestly eager to learn and either still getting their feet or struggling with some aspect, or they just havnt clicked to the best use of their time to progress. I really dont think we needed another "fuck noobs if they wont put in the effort" post so soon after Spoons, but I guess imitation is flattery/etc. Someone else will probably think Spoons cool and do the same again in a week or two.
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To clarify here since it didn't go over so well in that particular thread, my post was more part of my ongoing campaign to get more people into IRC and not so much of a "fuck the lazy bastards" type deal. It's soooo much easier to help most individuals there than here, and I know that I got at least 2-3 different newcomers to IRC through that thread, and so it was well worth it imho. The last thing I want to do is discourage someone from playing and coming here.
And for the rest of it, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings so I'll refrain.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I think redzilla would be a lot happier and a better contributor if he didn't try to be so "hardcore" about everything.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Thats part of what I meant but didnt articulate well. I saw your post as a clever attempt to get people to be more active in their learning. I see this one as just plain berating which helps noone.
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Just playing to improve.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
Thats part of what I meant but didnt articulate well. I saw your post as a clever attempt to get people to be more active in their learning. I see this one as just plain berating which helps noone.
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This is pretty much on the money.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Pig_Vomit
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
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Some of us need tough love. I'm not retarded...
Well at least i hope not.
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redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He yelled at me and I stopped playing NL
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He made my vagina hurt, so I quit playing NL |
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yeah, that
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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I find fuck you, you suck, you're lazy, win moniez or quit posts decidedly unhelpful...
but that's just me 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He yelled at me and I stopped playing NL |
Well you have an avatar of a tranny who looks like a 12 year old girl so I can see how that could have discouraged you.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He yelled at me and I stopped playing NL |
Well you have an avatar of a tranny who looks like a 12 year old girl so I can see how that could have discouraged you. |
If you didn't want to know, you shouldn't have asked
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He yelled at me and I stopped playing NL |
Well you have an avatar of a tranny who looks like a 12 year old girl so I can see how that could have discouraged you. |
If you didn't want to know, you shouldn't have asked |
I'm not calling you a pussy, I'm just saying. And I'm more of a Gia Darling kind of guy anyway.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Monty3038
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 788
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
I think people overestimate the number of noobies who are arrogant. You see one or two and paint everyone with the same brush. I'd say the majority are honestly eager to learn and either still getting their feet or struggling with some aspect, or they just havnt clicked to the best use of their time to progress. I really dont think we needed another "fuck noobs if they wont put in the effort" post so soon after Spoons, but I guess imitation is flattery/etc. Someone else will probably think Spoons cool and do the same again in a week or two.
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To clarify here since it didn't go over so well in that particular thread, my post was more part of my ongoing campaign to get more people into IRC and not so much of a "fuck the lazy bastards" type deal. It's soooo much easier to help most individuals there than here, and I know that I got at least 2-3 different newcomers to IRC through that thread, and so it was well worth it imho. The last thing I want to do is discourage someone from playing and coming here.
And for the rest of it, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings so I'll refrain.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I think redzilla would be a lot happier and a better contributor if he didn't try to be so "hardcore" about everything. |
Spoon/Others, I have a question about IRC.
This may not be the spot for it, but WHEN is everyone in? I have checked it multiple times but never found anyone in the channel (this was about a month ago) and gave up trying. Is there a busier time of day to catch people in there?
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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It would be interesting to know what percentage of microstakes players make a profit over a representative 100k+ sample size. Does anyone have any data on that?
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Monty3038
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
I think people overestimate the number of noobies who are arrogant. You see one or two and paint everyone with the same brush. I'd say the majority are honestly eager to learn and either still getting their feet or struggling with some aspect, or they just havnt clicked to the best use of their time to progress. I really dont think we needed another "fuck noobs if they wont put in the effort" post so soon after Spoons, but I guess imitation is flattery/etc. Someone else will probably think Spoons cool and do the same again in a week or two.
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To clarify here since it didn't go over so well in that particular thread, my post was more part of my ongoing campaign to get more people into IRC and not so much of a "fuck the lazy bastards" type deal. It's soooo much easier to help most individuals there than here, and I know that I got at least 2-3 different newcomers to IRC through that thread, and so it was well worth it imho. The last thing I want to do is discourage someone from playing and coming here.
And for the rest of it, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings so I'll refrain.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I think redzilla would be a lot happier and a better contributor if he didn't try to be so "hardcore" about everything. |
Spoon/Others, I have a question about IRC.
This may not be the spot for it, but WHEN is everyone in? I have checked it multiple times but never found anyone in the channel (this was about a month ago) and gave up trying. Is there a busier time of day to catch people in there? |
Are you sure you are going to the right place?? Click on the link in my signature titled "Come chat with us", and it will take you to a thread here on FTR about where to go to get into #flopturnriver with us.
And to answer your question on how busy it is. There is probably around 20 or so regulars that are in there on a daily basis. And a few more that stop in every now and again. At times you will find it a little inactive as everyone is either afk, or grinding. But it's rather busy lately, so come join in on the fun.
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Monty3038
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 788
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Thanks Stacks, yes that is exactly the instructions I used to connect.
I'll try again when on a machine I can do it on (at work now) and see if I can keep it running while I study tonight or tomorrow.
Oskar, I think if you have 100K hands in, you're no longer considered a noob, even if still at Microstakes. I've been playing for 6 months in cash (or maybe longer) and still only have about 10k hands in... I know that wasn't your point but if you have stuck it out for 100k hands and haven't progressed past MicroStakes, I don't think you're serious enough to even be worried about answering on FTR. But that is just my opinion...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
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Originally Posted by iopq
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
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Originally Posted by iopq
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He yelled at me and I stopped playing NL |
Well you have an avatar of a tranny who looks like a 12 year old girl so I can see how that could have discouraged you. |
If you didn't want to know, you shouldn't have asked :shock: |
I'm not calling you a pussy, I'm just saying. And I'm more of a Gia Darling kind of guy anyway. |
Gia Darling is a busted old slut, it's all about Vaniity
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Monty3038
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
I think people overestimate the number of noobies who are arrogant. You see one or two and paint everyone with the same brush. I'd say the majority are honestly eager to learn and either still getting their feet or struggling with some aspect, or they just havnt clicked to the best use of their time to progress. I really dont think we needed another "fuck noobs if they wont put in the effort" post so soon after Spoons, but I guess imitation is flattery/etc. Someone else will probably think Spoons cool and do the same again in a week or two.
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To clarify here since it didn't go over so well in that particular thread, my post was more part of my ongoing campaign to get more people into IRC and not so much of a "fuck the lazy bastards" type deal. It's soooo much easier to help most individuals there than here, and I know that I got at least 2-3 different newcomers to IRC through that thread, and so it was well worth it imho. The last thing I want to do is discourage someone from playing and coming here.
And for the rest of it, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings so I'll refrain.
Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I think redzilla would be a lot happier and a better contributor if he didn't try to be so "hardcore" about everything. |
Spoon/Others, I have a question about IRC.
This may not be the spot for it, but WHEN is everyone in? I have checked it multiple times but never found anyone in the channel (this was about a month ago) and gave up trying. Is there a busier time of day to catch people in there? |
There's like 20+ people in there almost all the time, including right now when I counted 21 including myself. If you never find anyone in the channel, you're probably connecting to the wrong server. Watch the video I posted in the sticky on the subject in the commune.
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Originally Posted by iopq
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
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Originally Posted by iopq
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
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Originally Posted by iopq
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
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Originally Posted by iopq
redzilla is the reason why I didn't play NL for like a month
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This could be taken a few different ways. Maybe some clarification is needed. |
He yelled at me and I stopped playing NL |
Well you have an avatar of a tranny who looks like a 12 year old girl so I can see how that could have discouraged you. |
If you didn't want to know, you shouldn't have asked |
I'm not calling you a pussy, I'm just saying. And I'm more of a Gia Darling kind of guy anyway. |
Gia Darling is a busted old slut, it's all about Vaniity |
Yeah but I have a lot of her old shit which does me fine.
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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02-09-2012, 07:28 PM Bally Launches Remote Gaming Server
Linear Mode
