Strange hand - thoughts?

**seven-deuce** · 08-11-2012 11:31 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2)
Hero (BB) ($2.82)
UTG ($4.47)
MP ($2)
CO ($2.95)
Button ($2)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, 10

UTG bets $0.08, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 8

, A

, 10

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, UTG calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.53) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.38, UTG raises to $1.32, Hero folds

Total pot: $1.29 | Rake: $0.05

I think he had 88 77 or 9J for sure, he opened to 0.08 with a PP before and showed pocket 77's.

**WeldPhaser** · 08-11-2012 06:50 PM

Do you have any other info on villain????

Are you running a hud?

**seven-deuce** · 08-11-2012 08:28 PM

Nah no hud, he was fairly loose all the nutted hands were definitely in his range though, and he stacked a guy a few hands before when he shipped it thats all i really had to go on, the only conclusion i could come to was he flopped a set, turned a set or turned a straight since it was such a strong move on the turn.

**Miffed22001** · 08-11-2012 09:47 PM

cant decide if we are giving far too much credit to an unknown at 2nl (lol?) or whether this is a text book set from villain and fold.

Gut instinct was call when i saw the HH and I think still is but any clue about villain would help - if he seems remotly competent id fold pretty fast

**surviva316** · 08-14-2012 12:35 AM

Wow flop sizing...just wow.

**OngBonga** · 08-14-2012 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

Wow flop sizing...just wow.

Yeah. Not folding top two against this guy, not for shit. I'm shoving, and making notes whatever he shows up with.

**surviva316** · 08-14-2012 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Yeah. Not folding top two against this guy, not for shit. I'm shoving, and making notes whatever he shows up with.

It's hard to comment on much in the hand due to lack of reads. Preflop is literally just as likely to be a 3b as it is to be a flat as it is to be a fold. Turn could potentially be a fold and COULD potentially be a call (though almost never). It depends on reads.

Flop sizing is always bad though in any situation where villain has a flatting range.

EDIT: All that being said, Hero's line is eeehhhhhhh. It's like we underrepped the near nuts only to fold it once villain showed that he was interested in getting stacks in.

**seven-deuce** · 08-14-2012 03:52 PM

Flop sizing too small to large? I think you mean its too small but just to clarify?

**surviva316** · 08-14-2012 05:37 PM

Not sure there's much value in spoon feeding in this instance.

Beside, the much more important point of my post is that we needs read on villain because every street in this hand could go several different ways depending on villain's tendency. As it stands, I really have no idea what villain's range is on any of the three streets, so there's not fruitful discussion to be had.

**bikes** · 08-17-2012 01:42 AM

call ai or jam w/e on the turn folding is sick bad

**surviva316** · 08-17-2012 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

Not sure there's much value in spoon feeding in this instance.

I guess it would at least be worthwhile to point out that once you "see" his $0.06 bet (breaking out the old-school terminology), the pot is $0.29, and you are forcing him to call $0.12 more. So you're effectively betting 12 into 29.

Just figure how much the pot would be if you were to call (his 6 cent bet+your 6 cent call+the original 17 cent pot) and whatever amount you're putting on TOP of your call is how much you're forcing him to call into that pot.

As played, you're giving him 3.5:1 odds on a call.

**Sloomer** · 08-17-2012 01:54 PM

I would have jammed pre flop.

**seven-deuce** · 08-17-2012 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by surviva316

So you're effectively betting 12 into 29.

I see now never knew to add your call on, thanks for this.

**surviva316** · 08-17-2012 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Sloomer

I would have jammed pre flop.

Risk 141bbs to win 5.5bbs? Assuming villain's range is 22+/AJo+/KQ/ATs+/JTs+, he would need to fold everything but KK+ 100% of the time for that to be profitable.

08-11-2012 11:31 AM #1
seven-deuce View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 441 Location playing my range like an idiot	Strange hand - thoughts? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com SB ($2) Hero (BB) ($2.82) UTG ($4.47) MP ($2) CO ($2.95) Button ($2) Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 10 UTG bets $0.08, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.06 Flop: ($0.17) 8, A, 10 (2 players) Hero checks, UTG bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, UTG calls $0.12 Turn: ($0.53) 7 (2 players) Hero bets $0.38, UTG raises to $1.32, Hero folds Total pot: $1.29 \| Rake: $0.05 I think he had 88 77 or 9J for sure, he opened to 0.08 with a PP before and showed pocket 77's.
	Erín Go Bragh
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08-11-2012 06:50 PM #2
WeldPhaser View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2012 Posts 328 Location Northeast, PA	Do you have any other info on villain???? Are you running a hud?
	"We're all just a million little gods causing rainstorms, turning every good thing to rust...."AF
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08-11-2012 08:28 PM #3
seven-deuce View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 441 Location playing my range like an idiot	Nah no hud, he was fairly loose all the nutted hands were definitely in his range though, and he stacked a guy a few hands before when he shipped it thats all i really had to go on, the only conclusion i could come to was he flopped a set, turned a set or turned a straight since it was such a strong move on the turn.
	Erín Go Bragh
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08-11-2012 09:47 PM #4
Miffed22001 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2005 Posts 10,440 Location Marry Me Cheryl!!!	cant decide if we are giving far too much credit to an unknown at 2nl (lol?) or whether this is a text book set from villain and fold. Gut instinct was call when i saw the HH and I think still is but any clue about villain would help - if he seems remotly competent id fold pretty fast

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08-14-2012 12:35 AM #5
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,802 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Wow flop sizing...just wow.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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Strange hand - thoughts?

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Strange hand - thoughts?

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08-14-2012 01:45 PM #6
OngBonga View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2010 Posts 5,311 Location England	Originally Posted by surviva316 Wow flop sizing...just wow. Yeah. Not folding top two against this guy, not for shit. I'm shoving, and making notes whatever he shows up with.
	Originally Posted by wufwugy ongies gonna ong
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08-14-2012 03:22 PM #7
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,802 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Originally Posted by OngBonga Yeah. Not folding top two against this guy, not for shit. I'm shoving, and making notes whatever he shows up with. It's hard to comment on much in the hand due to lack of reads. Preflop is literally just as likely to be a 3b as it is to be a flat as it is to be a fold. Turn could potentially be a fold and COULD potentially be a call (though almost never). It depends on reads. Flop sizing is always bad though in any situation where villain has a flatting range. EDIT: All that being said, Hero's line is eeehhhhhhh. It's like we underrepped the near nuts only to fold it once villain showed that he was interested in getting stacks in.
	Last edited by surviva316; 08-14-2012 at 05:35 PM. Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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08-14-2012 03:52 PM #8
seven-deuce View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 441 Location playing my range like an idiot	Flop sizing too small to large? I think you mean its too small but just to clarify?
	Erín Go Bragh
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08-14-2012 05:37 PM #9
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,802 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Not sure there's much value in spoon feeding in this instance. Beside, the much more important point of my post is that we needs read on villain because every street in this hand could go several different ways depending on villain's tendency. As it stands, I really have no idea what villain's range is on any of the three streets, so there's not fruitful discussion to be had.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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08-17-2012 01:42 AM #10
bikes View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message i roll up Join Date Nov 2007 Posts 6,227 Location house	call ai or jam w/e on the turn folding is sick bad

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08-17-2012 01:38 PM #11
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,802 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Originally Posted by surviva316 Not sure there's much value in spoon feeding in this instance. I guess it would at least be worthwhile to point out that once you "see" his $0.06 bet (breaking out the old-school terminology), the pot is $0.29, and you are forcing him to call $0.12 more. So you're effectively betting 12 into 29. Just figure how much the pot would be if you were to call (his 6 cent bet+your 6 cent call+the original 17 cent pot) and whatever amount you're putting on TOP of your call is how much you're forcing him to call into that pot. As played, you're giving him 3.5:1 odds on a call.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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08-17-2012 01:54 PM #12
Sloomer View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2010 Posts 53	I would have jammed pre flop.

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08-17-2012 02:11 PM #13
seven-deuce View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 441 Location playing my range like an idiot	Originally Posted by surviva316 So you're effectively betting 12 into 29. I see now never knew to add your call on, thanks for this.
	Erín Go Bragh
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08-17-2012 02:37 PM #14
surviva316 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Feb 2009 Posts 2,802 Location missing deadlines, pissing people off, frustrating myself	Originally Posted by Sloomer I would have jammed pre flop. Risk 141bbs to win 5.5bbs? Assuming villain's range is 22+/AJo+/KQ/ATs+/JTs+, he would need to fold everything but KK+ 100% of the time for that to be profitable.
	Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.
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