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animal_chin
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08-13-2007, 03:01 AM
Post subject: Straddling. Whats the point?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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If I understand correctly a straddle is a minraise UTG. So what is the point of the move and what hands should you do it with or should you just not do it at all?
Ohh and what is an decent average ROI% for the 9 man $5.50 SNGs on Stars?
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SHAKE
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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Straddleing is -EV the only time you should do it, is if the game is weak and everyne else is doing it. Dont be a nit.
As far as what hands, its a blind bet.....
Average roi on 5.50's Id say the average 5.50 player has an ROI of -20%
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animal_chin
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
Straddleing is -EV the only time you should do it, is if the game is weak and everyne else is doing it. Dont be a nit.
As far as what hands, its a blind bet.....
Average roi on 5.50's Id say the average 5.50 player has an ROI of -20%
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Ok. But what is a decent average ROI% in a $5.50? Like what is a sustainable ROI% at these stakes that I should shoot for?
And straddling is a poop move, just as I suspected.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by animal_chin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
Straddleing is -EV the only time you should do it, is if the game is weak and everyne else is doing it. Dont be a nit.
As far as what hands, its a blind bet.....
Average roi on 5.50's Id say the average 5.50 player has an ROI of -20%
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Ok. But what is a decent average ROI% in a $5.50? Like what is a sustainable ROI% at these stakes that I should shoot for?
And straddling is a poop move, just as I suspected. |
Staddling is OK if you know how to adjust to the different structure better than the rest of the table. It also help to create more action, but it's very -ev unless the rest of the table is doing it. That's all I know on that.
The average ROI in a $5.50 is -10%, since the rake is 10%. I don't know how good you are, but 10% should be possible, go check out Taipan's guide to low buyin sitngos in the sitngo forum.
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animal_chin
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by animal_chin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
Straddleing is -EV the only time you should do it, is if the game is weak and everyne else is doing it. Dont be a nit.
As far as what hands, its a blind bet.....
Average roi on 5.50's Id say the average 5.50 player has an ROI of -20%
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Ok. But what is a decent average ROI% in a $5.50? Like what is a sustainable ROI% at these stakes that I should shoot for?
And straddling is a poop move, just as I suspected. |
Staddling is OK if you know how to adjust to the different structure better than the rest of the table. It also help to create more action, but it's very -ev unless the rest of the table is doing it. That's all I know on that.
The average ROI in a $5.50 is -10%, since the rake is 10%. I don't know how good you are, but 10% should be possible, go check out Taipan's guide to low buyin sitngos in the sitngo forum. |
Ok thanks. I've already looked at his guide. Just getting my feet wet in the $5.50s. I'm pretty sure 10% wont be that hard.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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The straddle is essentially a third blind. For example, if the small blind was $1, the big blind would be $2, and the straddle would be $4 that the UTG position would bet just like a blind. The straddle is -EV unless everyone is doing it for the same reasons it would be -EV to post a BB out of position when you first enter a game. When everyone at a table is doing it, however, it creates added action because there is more money initially in the pot for people to fight over.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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straddling may be a crappy move, but...
you create action with it...not that live 1/2 games need any.
and, you do get to act last pf. thats the only true advantage.
the problem is that it costs you twice the BB and you havent seen your cards. oh, and you act third, assuming everyone's in, post flop.
shitty, unless you can goad the rest of the dead money at the table to do it along with you because its "what all the cool poker players do."
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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I would aim for a ROI of 20% in the $5.50 sngs at Stars.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
you do get to act last pf.
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Lol I love it when people say this. You act first. In even moderatly aggressive games its no different to looking at your cards and then raising any 2 UTG. Thats why the blind positions are losing money in everyones database past 2NL.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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CrackingYou
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: All in the nuts.
Posts: 35
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I fucking hate straddlers.
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Feels like I'm climbing in a tree.
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larsmars
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 101
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I can't imagine a live straddle being +EV unless the rest of the table is doing it. I sometimes do it when I'm drunk or if I just sat down UTG, just to make a donkish statement. Some places they let you straddle on the button (Mississippi straddle), meaning the SB acts first pre-flop, which is obviously much better. Only place I've seen it is at the Rio, though.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
you do get to act last pf.
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Lol I love it when people say this. You act first. In even moderatly aggressive games its no different to looking at your cards and then raising any 2 UTG. Thats why the blind positions are losing money in everyones database past 2NL. |
sure, maybe its the same thing as a minraise UTG, in theory.
but, technically, and please correct me if i am wrong, UTG+1 is the first one that can fold "for free."
and, everyone has to double the small blind to see a flop, minimum...even the big blind. only you, the straddle, can check if you dont like what you see...or you can raise once you see how many people decided to call your straddle. therefore, you ACT LAST preflop. yes?
i guess, technically, you acted third...after the blinds, but in terms of gaining information, you pay double the big blind to see all the action you can before you have to make up your mind.
to me, that is acting last.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Just wondering Chopper but is English not your first language? If so, no problem, just curious.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Just wondering Chopper but is English not your first language? If so, no problem, just curious.
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whats your point....explain please.
'cause right now, it feels like another two minutes of my life i'll never get back.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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animal_chin
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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I was under the impression that straddling was a UTG raise to 2xBB after seeing your cards. So whats the deal on this move after you see your cards?
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(10:08:39 PM) Bbickes: animal chin is pretty much the balla i wanna be
(10:08:44 PM) Bbickes: drinking every night
(10:08:48 PM) Bbickes: and ballin hard all day
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CrackingYou
I fucking LOVE straddlers, particularly on my button.
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NLHE: It makes the game play bigger and lowers the effective stack depth.
LHE: It's just a stupid bet the provokes loose action to attack the extra blind.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Lol I love it when people say this. You act first. In even moderatly aggressive games its no different to looking at your cards and then raising any 2 UTG. Thats why the blind positions are losing money in everyones database past 2NL.
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With a LIVE straddle, you get last action pre-flop. Some cardrooms allow a button straddle which gives you last action on every betting round.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I fucking LOVE straddlers, particularly on my button.
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Had one almost the entire night on Saturday on my button. Contributed to my $800 win at 1/2 $100max.
If you don't like straddlers, maybe you don't like money?
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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I'm talking about big bet (NL) games here.
never straddle.
i don't mind if others do it. dead money is dead money. But I won't do it, even if it means my opponents will stop doing it*
If i was given the choice between a game where everyone straddled, or a game where nobody straddles because I won't do it, I would choose the latter. For the skilled player, the extra blind that the straddle creates is bad for me: I want the stacks to be as big as possible relative to the blinds in order to maximize my advantage.
*exception 1: if the game is really good, and your refusal to straddle will either get you barred (in a home game), or break the game up, then you can straddle.
*exception 2: in a POT LIMIT game, if the stacks are just too big relative to the stacks (like most players have 300+BB stacks) and everyone else is doing it, then go along with it.
*exception 3: if the straddlers are overdefending their straddle, and you think they will stop straddling if you don't, then go with it.
*NB: kill games, however can work to your advantage. Because the good player wins more money but less pots, and the calling/bluffing stations win more pots and therefore post more kills. If you're posting kills less frequently than them by making prudent folds and exercising reasonable preflop selection (this is especially true in games like limit holdem and LO8), you'll kill the game
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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animal_chin
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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So is voluntarily putting in a raise to 2xbb UTG after you see your cards ever a good play?
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by animal_chin
So is voluntarily putting in a raise to 2xbb UTG after you see your cards ever a good play?
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If you have cards that you want to raise with UTG, then do more than minraise. You don't really want to get repopped since you are out of position, and no longer the agressor. If you are gonna open raise then go 3 or 4xbb.
The min raise UTG MIGHT work if the table is very tight, but not often.
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CrackingYou
I fucking LOVE straddlers, particularly on my button.
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NLHE: It makes the game play bigger and lowers the effective stack depth.
LHE: It's just a stupid bet the provokes loose action to attack the extra blind. |
QFMFT
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by animal_chin
So is voluntarily putting in a raise to 2xbb UTG after you see your cards ever a good play?
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Its not bad in limit...
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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What is this limit you speak of?
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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