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MasonGamble
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02-24-2010, 02:28 PM
Post subject: Stepping outside your bankroll
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 65
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Not sure where to post this, but since I'm directly refferring to FR low stake game play, I figured this was the best place to ask.
One thing in all the years I've played NL Hold'em I never took into consideration was Bankroll management. As of lately I've really been trying to sharpen up and play to make money instead of just having fun and the thing I'm having a hard time with is online bankroll management.
At the casino I walk in with a set amount. Usually 100xbb playing at a $1/$2 table so I'll bring $200. If I ever lost the money I would walk out and not be upset and never withdraw more that night to play. This hasn't happened yet, but that IS what I would do.
However, online seems to change so many rules for what % I should be playing with and how much to keep in my online account. I'm curious to know exactly how you guys work it.
Do you deposit a certain amount and that's it? That's what you've been playing with all along? And do you cap your loss for one day? And if you do, do you ever brake the rule? And when and how much do you decide to cash out?
For example, we're playing a .25/.50 table and we've lost $50, however it was honestly due to a bad beat and before that we've pretty much had this table locked down. We're feeling comfortable with the players and know that if we put another $50 in chances are we will get the original $50 back and perhaps move up from there.
And last but not least... Do you ONLY play within your online bankroll? What if for example, I only felt like depositing $100, however this isn't my entire POKER bankroll, just what I felt like putting in. And I want to play .50/$1 with 100xbb. So long as that is within my actual bankroll does it matter?
I know some of these questions might seem like they have an obvious answer, but I"m curious as to other's methods. Thanks for you knowledgeable responses!
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celtic123
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR
Posts: 708
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Hello MasonG
Have a swift scan of these articles.
Bankroll Management 101
The Greatest Obstacle in Poker
The Truth About the Dangers of Playing Under Rolled
Your Bankroll and You
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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If you can replace your roll easily, then playing with x-amount of buyins doesn't really matter if you're playing for pure entertainment value. If you're playing to pay the bills, then you should probably have about 40-50 buyins for the level you play, so you can A) cash out without having to move down a level and b) enough cushion to make said cash outs every other week. Additionally, playing over-rolled is +EV for a lot of us degenerates.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRounder
If you can replace your roll easily, then playing with x-amount of buyins doesn't really matter if you're playing for pure entertainment value. If you're playing to pay the bills, then you should probably have about 40-50 buyins for the level you play, so you can A) cash out without having to move down a level and b) enough cushion to make said cash outs every other week. Additionally, playing over-rolled is +EV for a lot of us degenerates.
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If you're playing to pay the bills, you need a lot more than that. All it takes is once nice 20-BI downswing and you're screwed.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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Yeah, you're right, especially if you're mass-tabling, which I know you do since I've seen you on Stars before. I usually only play 4 tables though so I've never had a problem with downswings that big. If I lose more than 8 buyins over a few days, I just go up to Detroit and make up for it at the $2/5 tables. Live poker is so freaking easy. 
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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I think you have some good questions. I started a thread to try to relate to WHY you should follow bankroll management. It sounds like you're already trying to do that and don't need to be convinced, so that's good. It may be worth a read to you nevertheless.
There's no one right answer per se, but the way I do it and recommend to players all the time is as follows: Whenever you first play online poker, deposit a small amount of money to start @ the lowest levels. For example, in cash games, deposit $50 to $100 to play $2NL. That IS your online poker bankroll and it doesn't matter if you could deposit $200, $2,000, or $2 million. The goal is to PROVE you are a winner by actually WINNING @ those stakes and then moving up the stakes following bankroll management of having at LEAST 30 buy-ins per level and dropping down when you have only 20. When you are playing $50NL and get stacked by a bad beat and the players are bad, it doesn't matter, the way you get that money back is by reloading and outplaying them and logging the hands to overcome that statistical variance. It's as simple as that.
Also note just because you won the Sunday Million doesn't mean you can suddenly jump up from $50NL cash games to $200NL cash games. The money you win in your bankroll has to be from the games you are playing.
I keep my LIVE bankroll separate from my online bankroll because those games are inherently different and the way I access my money is also different.
Eventually after you have decided to STOP moving up, it's time to take a hard look @ your bankroll relative to your style, swings, and how easy or difficult it is to move money. I've kept all my money online because I've kept moving up thus far. Whenever I stop moving up because the games are too hard or because I've hit $1,0000 NL and games don't regularly run past there for full ring, I will figure out what is a REASONABLE bankroll to have to play in those games. I'll probably look @ the worst buy-in downswing I've ever had and add a few to that. If I run worse than I ever thought was possible, I'll just redeposit some of the money I withdrew. I'll be sure to keep good records though because if you lose too much, it's time to drop down again.
Financially it's not smart to have too much money online unless you need it for obvious reasons. On the other hand, you want to make sure you have enough to play and you don't want to be making 100 transactions a month either if you can help it. Good luck.
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- Jason
 
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rong
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beachside
Posts: 1,196
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What happened to gingerwizards bankroll management article? I think it was called why not to play under rolled, and there was gonna be a sequal called why not to play over rolled. I thought it was a dam good article.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.
Fucking. Retarded.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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It's the third link in celtics reply
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
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And there it is. What took you so long? LOL
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