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Stats for my first 20k hands at 10NL

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caddie444

05-14-2009, 09:58 PM Post subject: Stats for my first 20k hands at 10NL

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: constantly UTG

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caddie444 will become famous soon enough

Well I've just started the full ring adventure...

I was strictly a sit'n'go player until I went crazy from the constant pushing and shoving you have to do, and figured that if I want to become a better overall player I need to play cash games.

stats for sit'n'go's:

I have ~33% ROI after around 2000 $3.25 6 max turbos
I have ~16% ROI after about 500 $6.50 6 max turbos

About cash games: I love 'em. A lot more than sit'n'go's. I am officially addicted to watching HSP...

So I started out 9 tabling 10NL, here are my stats:

And here's my garph:

Any analysis of my stats, or general advice greatly appreciated, but I do have one specific question...

Am I ready for 25NL? (Based on these stats) My bankroll is ~$900

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AFchung

05-14-2009, 10:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

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you said its a full ring adventure, but those are stats for 6max

your vpip and pfr are a bit too spaced about imo. raise more and limp less, and dont forget to isolate when in position

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

Kbryce23

05-14-2009, 10:09 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Michigan

Posts: 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

you said its a full ring adventure, but those are stats for 6max

your vpip and pfr are a bit too spaced about imo. raise more and limp less, and dont forget to isolate when in position

Those are FR stats, thats how mine look on HM too. They combine positions to make up EP and MP I think.

Micro2Macro

05-14-2009, 10:13 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I think the call 3bet % could be a leak.

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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surviva316

05-14-2009, 10:16 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I don't play FR but your VPIP/PFR margin seems a bit wide for early and middle positions. i imagine you're almost never limping or calling a raise in EP, so i'd imagine this number to be more like 12/10 if they're not just outright identical. in middle position, i can imagine more scenarios where you're flatting a raise but still not enough for the ratio to be 8/5.

i don't play FR but i do play tourneys and i'm only really limping or flatting raises PF if i'm IN POSITION and have a hand like low PP's or SC's (or sometimes a big suited broadway). playing passively in EP and MP seems spewey to me

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Schya

05-14-2009, 10:28 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

you said its a full ring adventure, but those are stats for 6max

your vpip and pfr are a bit too spaced about imo. raise more and limp less, and dont forget to isolate when in position

Its HEM which only has those stats not every seat

05-15-2009, 10:06 AM

#7 (permalink)

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raise more preflop
fold to more 3bets
call less post-flop, bet more
fire a second barrel less (check back marginal hands on the turn)
don't call raises from the early and middle position as much since chances are you're going to be OOP between the EP raiser and LP folks

daven

05-15-2009, 01:21 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Schya

Its HEM which only has those stats not every seat

not true. Better not to post false information.
You just have to learn to use HEM or search engines.
Here could be a good place to look?
http://www.holdemmanager.net/forum/s...7cc76cb6&t=311

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

05-15-2009, 01:39 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schya

Its HEM which only has those stats not every seat

not true. Better not to post false information.
You just have to learn to use HEM or search engines.
Here could be a good place to look?
http://www.holdemmanager.net/forum/s...7cc76cb6&t=311

I think his point was that the OP posted the FR stats in that way, a fact that AFChung didn't notice

BooG690

05-15-2009, 03:01 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 1,439

As M2M pointed out...that call 3bet% is a definite leak. A tad bit too high. You are going into 3bet pots with marginal hands (which I guarantee is causing you to lose many 3bet pots).

Also, as IOPQ pointed out, bet more instead of calling. I wouldn't mind seeing your aggression frequency rise.

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.

Jason

05-15-2009, 03:48 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: TN

Posts: 883

Since I currently play $10NL, the statistic that immediately jumps out to me is win rate. Admittedly, I have a smaller sample size of only about 6000 hands, but my win rate is currently much higher @ around 24BB/100. If you click on my operation link, you'll see that to date I've had similar success at the two levels before this one, so I believe these are viable possibilities. And, it's not that I think everyone should have a really high winrate @ this level, but I would guess 8BB to 10BB per 100 should be the low side of what most successful players should be aiming for.

There's nothing else about your stats that stands out as an obvious reason for what I consider a small win rate at these stakes. So, my first question is, how many tables are you playing? Are you playing too many tables on system auto-pilot or are you playing fewer tables to get reads, take notes, and really play and learn the game? I strongly recommend the latter. Next, are you game selecting well? There are a lot of fish at this level and to cash in, you need to make sure you're playing with them. Lastly, whenever I see a player that is tight and aggressive as you appear to be without a good winrate, my first thought is that they are not getting paid enough for their good hands. Consider more bluffs when you're at a table with players that aren't paying you off or open your range in some small pots just to create a more favorable image for yourself. It's fine to play some speculative hands like 87s in a small pot if it'll help you take someone's stack when you get KK. Also analyze your aggression - are you constantly blowing your villains out of pots with premium hands? Remember that if you have pocket aces on a A62 rainbow board and you make a big bet pre-flop and on the flop and your opponent folds, they played optimally and you want your villains to make mistakes. As always, it comes down to:

Where are you consistently losing or leaking money?
Where are you consistently NOT winning money or extracting enough value?

As to the question of whether you should move up or not. You're properly rolled and you've proven you can beat this level, so I would be hard pressed to say you shouldn't move up. On the other hand, my biggest concern is that you don't appear to be beating it soundly so best case scenario you're looking at 0 BB to 4BB per 100 win rates. And, of course, you could always jump up to find you can't beat it at all. I'd probably make the jump and continue to work on my game. I definitely wouldn't advise playing too many tables.

Good luck.

- Jason

05-15-2009, 04:01 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Jason's advice is good, I agree that you should be able to get over 10BB/100
but in order to get a higher winrate you might have to cut down on the amount of tables, improve your pre-flop and post-flop play

improving pre-flop play is easy, just start open-raising a lot more and isolating a lot more

post-flop is harder to teach

caddie444

05-15-2009, 04:33 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: constantly UTG

Posts: 723

Thanks for the input so far guys

Like I said I play 9 tables so I admittedly go into auto pilot for the majority of sessions.

I noticed that my call 3 bet % was high too, ideally what should this number look like?

As far as game selecting, I just avoid tables that have shortstacks, thats pretty much it, I don't have too many players in my database yet to try and hunt out fish.

I think I'm going to stick around for another few ten thousand hands to try and learn more.

Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)

05-15-2009, 05:15 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by caddie444

Try for a really low 3b call, like 30-40%
Table select by leaving tables that suck and you should be able to tell after like 30 hands which people suck

Jason

05-15-2009, 06:17 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: TN

Posts: 883

I personally play on 2 to 3 tables with a periodic 4th table when I know I'm about to be leaving another table once the blind gets around. I'd probably recommend doing that until you establish a solid win-rate and then feel free to add more tables as you can while maintaining your edge. The example I like to use is that you should reach periodic moments in your sessions where you will put in a min raise on the river with 3rd pair because (A) you know it's the best hand and (B) you know the bet will get called. How often do you or can you make those plays playing 9 tables or more? When you are trying to improve your game and move up, I think you want to avoid auto-pilot. Be careful about boredom tilt you may suffer as a consequence. To combat that, you should be taking lots of notes plus putting villains on ranges and hands.

For game selection at these stakes, I recommend looking for tables with a high percentage of players seeing the flop. I wouldn't avoid short stacks. I've found they are often the worst players and it's easy to apply pressure on them and get them to fold.

Good luck.

- Jason

Kijjo

05-15-2009, 08:30 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Alabama

Posts: 554

Quote:

Try for a really low 3b call, like 30-40%

Op's stat is 44.4%. Are you really sweating 4.4% over a 20k sample? I thought it should be significantly lower? Ofcourse getting it to 30% would be significantly better.

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05-16-2009, 12:30 AM

#17 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijjo

Quote:

Try for a really low 3b call, like 30-40%

Op's stat is 44.4%. Are you really sweating 4.4% over a 20k sample? I thought it should be significantly lower? Ofcourse getting it to 30% would be significantly better.

well, it's opponent-dependent, so I can only give very general guidelines

but yes, reducing by 4.4% would be an improvement

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