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cardsman1992
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02-20-2006, 05:29 PM
Post subject: Is this stat useful for anything?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Getting ready to download PokerTracker, but I haven't quite yet. The site I play on does keep certain stats for you, like percentage of times you see the flop (not the same as VP$IP), % of times you fold on streets, etc. Not nearly as detailed as PT, but I did run across something that I wondered would be useful.
Is the number of pots you win/split compared to the number of hands played a useful stat for anything? For example, over the course of 1150 hands this weekend, I won/split 152 pots (13.2%). I know that is way too small a sample, but it was a start. My percentage of seeing the flop was 28%, but that also includes checked big blinds. My VP$IP would have been less.
I know there are more valuable stats, but I wondered if this one meant anything.
Also, my winning at showdown percentage was only 40%. I don't get to the river a whole heck of a lot, and I did get several bluffs picked off, but I don't think that is a good percentage, is it? I think a better percentage is between 50-60%. I was wondering, however, is the fact that I don't get called down on the river a huge leak? Am I missing value bets that are costing me money? I tend to get a lot of folds on the flop with a pot sized bet, or on the turn when firing the second barrel.....
I will post some hand histories later as well. (I can finally do that!!) Thoughts appreciated!
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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I'd be more concearned about $ won then % of pots won.
Your % won at showdown can be skewed if you push all-in on flop or turn with the best of it and get river donked. There are other factors as well. 40% is a little on the low side though.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Most site provided stats are reset with every session, so long-term they don't really tell you anything. I don't often look at them anymore. However, if you do notice some trends - similar numbers every session - then they might have some value. Flops seen for instance...new players usually see way too many flops (I was up around 70% when I started...sheesh!). 28% is up there but not excessively so, and if you're getting cards you would expect a number in this range. On a really cold streak I've seen mine go down closer to 10%, and in a hot session up above 40%. Usually I'm between 15-20%.
Your wins at showdown % would be a cause for concern if it was always where this one was...it would mean you're not getting away from a lot of second best hands. And I don't think 50-60% is a high enough target - 70-80% more like. Some sessions you'll be 100% here, though not very often.
Anyway, they're good things to monitor but don't take them TOO seriously. PT is definitely more useful for identifying leaks.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Thanks guys...
I had based the 50-60% on a post I read here that if your win at showdown is between 70-80%, you aren't bluffing enough. However, at the level I play, I shouldn't be bluffing anyway, so your target is better to shoot for.
You are right, Warpe, I do have a tendency to not get away from a second best hand from time to time.
I appreciate the help!!!
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I had based the 50-60% on a post I read here that if your win at showdown is between 70-80%, you aren't bluffing enough.
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That may very well be true. I'm a tightie but tend toward passive.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
And I don't think 50-60% is a high enough target - 70-80% more like.
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I couldn't disagree more. At 70-80% you are folding a lot of hands that are probably winners. You want closer to 55-60% winners at showdown. Don't forget the times you check all the way to the river with high card & lose count against your stats too.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
And I don't think 50-60% is a high enough target - 70-80% more like.
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I couldn't disagree more. At 70-80% you are folding a lot of hands that are probably winners. You want closer to 55-60% winners at showdown. Don't forget the times you check all the way to the river with high card & lose count against your stats too. |
Sorry, but I'm speaking from the perspective of SNG/MTT play, which is what I do mostly, and I didn't think about ring. I think a tighter/higher standard is necessary in tourney (or else you're dead). In ring, I think you're absolutely right.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
You want closer to 55-60% winners at showdown. Don't forget the times you check all the way to the river with high card & lose count against your stats too.
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For what it's worth, I think I'm still under 50% W$@SD and am running like 15/100 at 100NL...
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