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Spot with JJ in 3 bet pot

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T-Rex

05-06-2009, 05:02 AM Post subject: Spot with JJ in 3 bet pot

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 119

No reads no HUD on at this time I had 3 Bet him once before and he folded. within the last 4 hands.

I Really felt he had QQ+ here or maybe calling with A10 cuzz i just 3 bet him earlyer. I had that GUT instinct and I decided to fold but I was wondering how I should have played this...Previously I would have snap called down to put it all in. But recently my saying is if i dont know FOLD! cuzz everytime i didnt know before i called to learn and most the time i had that GUT feeling its right

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($43.75)
Button ($25)
Hero (SB) ($34.80)
BB ($14.80)
UTG ($15.25)
MP ($25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

, J

3 folds, Button bets $1, Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Button calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.25) 5

, 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, Button raises to $9, Hero ?

Total pot: $14.25 | Rake: $0.65

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Micro2Macro

05-06-2009, 05:33 AM

#2 (permalink)

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what are your reasons for 3-betting preflop

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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bigspenda73

05-06-2009, 05:53 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

lol PF is fine let's not analyze it

TonyB73

05-06-2009, 06:12 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 414

I think 3betting is better than flatting preflop. Playing JJ well is tough at the best of times, especially OOP, and by 3betting you're going to get a fold often (esp against an open-raise from the button, which will often be a steal attempt).

(EDIT: sorry, didn't see Spenda's post until after I posted mine ...)

Post-flop is tough without stats or reads, but I struggle to put him on much that you beat. I don't think he plays 5x or 66-99 this way very often (I think at 25NL they call flop almost every time). So unless he's a maniac or loves a bluff, which of course you don't know, it looks a lot like 55, QQ+ or a T to me. Its also a small raise, which could mean that he wants a call. So I probably fold, although I'm not very happy about it.

Ragnar4

05-06-2009, 06:24 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

lol PF is fine let's not analyze it

Doesn't correct PF analysis lead us to the promised land of Post flop bliss?

sure seems like an easy shove to me.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

clvacva

05-06-2009, 06:24 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 200

I don't see a ten in his 3bet flat range
prehaps a 9T,JT type of hand
also he may think your full of S#it and is
doing this with pkt pair, AK,AQ,AJ,KQ, or a flush draw.
so I call/shove :P

Micro2Macro

05-06-2009, 06:52 AM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: http://three-pair.com/

Posts: 4,463

yeh
i get it in on flop and expect to see worse alot more than Tx

daven

05-06-2009, 07:00 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

how about a range trip:
put him on a steal range
now narrow that to a call your 3-bet range
now narrow that to a raise your c-bet range.

makes the hand easier to talk about. Assume Tag-wannabe i guess

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

05-06-2009, 08:14 AM

#9 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Tx sometimes will just call and shove turn
so to me his most likely range is air
I call and hope he shoves turn

TonyB73

05-06-2009, 08:42 AM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 414

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvacva

I don't see a ten in his 3bet flat range
prehaps a 9T,JT type of hand

My experience is that if we 3bet your average 25NL donk off a raise, his call 3bet range less than 4 hands later will be significantly wider than it was the first time, especially when he's in position. So without any further reads I think here we can include at least AT and probably KT, JTs and T9s as well.

So I think he gets to the flop with a pretty wide range, but I have more trouble finding any hands we beat other than air in his flop raise range, so we would have to believe he's bluffing there a fair amount of the time to continue.

EDIT: I missed the FD, which must be a reasonable chunk of his flop raising range too - and its probably likely enough to make me strongly consider calling and then shoving a non-heart turn.

Robb

05-06-2009, 03:03 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

The wonderful thing about TAGG wannabe's at 10nl and 25nl is that they open-raise 22-88 and then can't let go of them when 3bet. I put 66-99 in his 3 bet flatting range, possibly discounted. Once you get a read, you'll find a lot of these villains have 22 - 66 in their 3bet flatting range. And he has to feel like TT5 missed your hand (and he's right, sort of).

I think there's value here, especially since you gotta think he 4bets you preflop the majority of the time w/ QQ+.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

2ndline.4thstreet

05-06-2009, 06:00 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 120

I like your pf line. I don't think I can call here - especially without reads or stats to support a call.

ColdDecked

05-07-2009, 06:45 AM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 217

I think I shove flop. QQ+ might 4bet since you've 3bet him a few hands ago, and the weak cbet on a TT5 board may have induced this bluff.

05-07-2009, 06:48 AM

#14 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

And he has to feel like TT5 missed your hand (and he's right, sort of).

Not really, we nailed the flop.

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Spot with JJ in 3 bet pot

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