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UG
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02-04-2005, 04:05 PM
Post subject: Spaced Connectors
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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This was posted in the LIMIT forum, but I'm looking for advice on the NL side of things.
When is it okay to play spaced connectors? I usually throw them away, but after last night (and after reading the article in the LIMIT section), I'm thinking a little differently about them.
So last night, I'm holding QTs in late position (one off the button). Three people limped in front of me, button folds, SB calls, BB checks. Flop? 9JK, two are the same suit as mine. So not only do I have a straight here, but I also have a chance at a straight flush.
Thing is.....I folded. So I'm not in the pot, there is a raise, a reraise, and then an all-in that gets called.....and the guy with pair of Kings takes down the pot.
If I would have played it would have been about a $4000 swing on a $50 bet.
So, playing these in late position with a bunch of limpers....is that smart? Or no? What if you get raised by SB or BB, throw away or call?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I'm assuming this is a tourny (No teacher plays high-stakes NL hold 'em). With small blinds and hands with potential in multi-way pots, a cheap flop can never hurt.
If the blinds are bigger, you can play QTs for a raise to steal the blinds.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Spook
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 388
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Make the limpers pay. Your position will give you the opportunity to cut your losses should things go bad post flop. You table image and that of your opponents plays a much greater factor in this decision IMHO. When you have a tight image, these are great cards combined with your position to pick off some blinds.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I'm assuming this is a tourny (No teacher plays high-stakes NL hold 'em).
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You are correct sir.
If no teachers play high-stakes NL hold'em, you're assured that no SUBSTITUTE teachers play high-stakes NL hold'em either. Just thinking about the low probability of that ever happening makes me LOL.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spook
Make the limpers pay. Your position will give you the opportunity to cut your losses should things go bad post flop. You table image and that of your opponents plays a much greater factor in this decision IMHO. When you have a tight image, these are great cards combined with your position to pick off some blinds.
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I think I disagree with that. If I'm holding a marginal hand early in an SNG and I'm in late position, and I have the opportunity to limp....I'm going to limp. If I raise I am going to be called by at the very least *half* of the people who called originally, if not reraised by some butthole that was trying to limp in with AA/KK/QQ/AK...
So why raise with a marginal hand, get called by a bunch of people, and have a great chance of not hitting on the flop? I guess you can throw down another 2/3 pot bet, but what if that gets called? Now you've wasted $300-400 on a hand that you shouldn't have been playing in the first place.
Am I wrong in thinking this way?
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate George
So why raise with a marginal hand, get called by a bunch of people, and have a great chance of not hitting on the flop? I guess you can throw down another 2/3 pot bet, but what if that gets called? Now you've wasted $300-400 on a hand that you shouldn't have been playing in the first place.
Am I wrong in thinking this way?
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You're probably just not raising enough. A good blind-stealing raise in an SnG is substantial... for the standard 800 chips-to-start game, you want to raise about 6-8xBB. You also might want to wait out the first few rounds, let a few of the wild ones off themselves. As you get into the middle stretch of the game, then start stealing, as players get more conservative and the blinds get to be worth stealing.
I will also occasionally limp suited/gapped cards for the flush and straight possibilities, which are almost as good as with connectors. Limp them when there's more people in the pot. Fewer people = easier stealing.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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I think QTs is a definite play. It has high-card power. When I think "gapped connectors" I think <10.
In NL the implied odds for gapped cards are much better. But the same basic considerations apply. You want numerous callers & good position. And you MUST be able to drop them quickly if they don't hit.
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Corey
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,349
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If they limped in think to yourself why not see a marginal hand for the price of the blind? Or push and hope to get some folds.
MArginal hands in late position is not a bad thing.
teacher! grow some STONES
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Corey
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
I think QTs is a definite play. It has high-card power. When I think "gapped connectors" I think <10.
In NL the implied odds for gapped cards are much better. But the same basic considerations apply. You want numerous callers & good position. And you MUST be able to drop them quickly if they don't hit.
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Yes, I think in late position NL, :Qs::Ts: becomes playable because in addition to the straight/flush possibilities, you also have a decent shot at flopping top pair.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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QTs is definitely a limp-worthy hand (as opposed to folding) in a tournament. I'd even play it in a cash game, but maybe that's why my VP$IP was up around 30.
- Jeffrey
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whileone
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 306
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I've lost too many times with QT. Pretty much horrible post flop play, with a bad beat kicker.
Anyway, when i can convince myself to think rationally about it, a suited QT is definitely limpable in late position. They make great straights and flushes.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by whileone
I've lost too many times with QT. ....
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Maybe it's one of my superstition hands
-I lovingly refer to it as "Quentin"
-Got an RF with it once. Paid $500. Yum
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Corey
If they limped in think to yourself why not see a marginal hand for the price of the blind? Or push and hope to get some folds.
MArginal hands in late position is not a bad thing.
teacher! grow some STONES
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I realize now that I should be limping with this hand......but I was trying to argue against RAISING with this hand. I think that's just insane, with five limpers ahead of you. Whoever calls probably shouldn't be limping anyway.
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