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Are Some Limits Unbeatable?

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Jiggus

10-25-2005, 04:10 AM Post subject: Are Some Limits Unbeatable?

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I'm starting to think that I'm just not ever going to be decent. (Er, a decent PLAYER, that is).

Based on Aok's advice, I've been trying to improve my game by concentrating at one limit and writing down, reviewing and analysing my hands and play.

I've adopted his starting hand grouping which is only slightly tighter than my own, but the difference is that I am being more aggressive pre-flop.

I am playing $2NL tables. Yes, I know it's small, but I don't get suicidal after losing threee buy ins in one session, which seems to be happening a lot since I've adpoted the more aggressive strategy.

I used to play Aok's "counterplay" technique with more success, it seems, against these tables full of callers.

I've played about 800 hands with the "latest" strategy and have been crucified. From a winning player at this limit to a loser.

I see a couple of players who regularly win 5 or more buy ins at this limit, but I'm wondering if it's just luck or if anyone who is decent can beat ANY limit.

Further note, I stayed away from paris less than JJ but am now playing any pair and PT tells me the same story: they are killing me.

My standard session of late has been to lose with AA,KK or QQ to someone going all in with 96 off, or when I do flop the hidden set, there are only 3 players in the pot and they all fold even though I end up with 4 of a kind by the river so my winnings are minimal.

Contrarily, I'll lose my stack to someone who I've noticed is a habitual caller with squat, when said caller snags three of a kind to my KK or AA.

I'm quite down about this, and I will point out that I've played about 2500 hands at this limit, and about 8000 hands overall (at least since I've been keeping them on PT).

I started with a 150 buck roll and am now down to 110. I was seriously close to going on tilt yesterday, just blowing the rest on sit and go's until I was broke, but I thought that I'd let out a desparate plea for help here and see what happens.

Jigs

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Greedo017

10-25-2005, 04:21 AM

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post some of your pt numbers, mainly vp$ip and pfr%. this would be a good start. next, post some hands where you lost, whether you think its a bad beat or bad luck or whatever, and we'll let you know if you played it right. $2 NL can for sure be beaten.

if you were a winning player before, why change? what do you mean more aggressive pre-flop, do you mean raising to a higher amount, raising more hands? do you think this has had the unintended consequence of making you tied to more marginal hands post-flop?

and lastly. its a little bit hard to tell just how long you've been having trouble. 8000 hands of trouble is significant, 800 hands is a really small number and could just be variance, but you really shouldn't be leaking money like crazy either.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

Jiggus

11-01-2005, 03:42 PM Post subject: PT Details

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I realise now, that I posted this in the wrong place! Oops. Apologies.

In any case, for Greedoo, thanks for your reply, and here's some PT info.

I'm actually very curious as to what the vp$ip is supposed to tell me.

total_hands vol_saw_flop saw_flop_sb att_steal
3730 11.6086 15.3209 0

co_pct_wsf co_big_bets_won sd_pct co_sd_win pf_raise
25.741 4.3834 18.5647 50.4202 2.4933

My winning % when seeing the flop has dropped a bit, however, I've made a small but significant change to my game and it seems to be paying dividends.

Laeelin and R8ed advised me that my pre-flop and continuation bets were likely too small. I've started making pot-sized continuation bets when the flop misses, and I'm taking the money more often than not.

I think that I'm starting to become more like those aggressive and annoying players who were 'stealing' the pots from me all the time with big post flop raises.

I'm very happy with my winning % when at the showdown, but if you have any tips on what more I should look for please do tell.

Jigs

biondino

11-01-2005, 06:08 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Would you mind sorting out those figures dude?

LeFou

11-01-2005, 07:44 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

Would you mind sorting out those figures dude?

total_hands --------- vol_saw_flop --------- saw_flop_sb att_steal
3730 ---------------11.6086 ---------15.3209 0

co_pct_wsf ------- co_big_bets_won ------ sd_pct -------- co_sd_win ------ pf_raise
25.741------------ 4.3834 -------------------- 18.5647 -------------- 50.4202 ---- 2.4933------

Greedo017

11-01-2005, 08:37 PM

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the point of that is just to see if there's a big red flag. VP$IP is the amount of the time you put money in preflop, it shouldn't be a crazy number, and yours isn't, it could actually be a little higher.

are things going better for you now? and that's good advice, I tend to make pot sized continuation bets if i miss, and bet maybe 3/4 or less if I hit or have a made hand, also.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

Jiggus

11-02-2005, 07:39 AM

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Sorry for those numbers! Thanks a lot Le Fou. I did use the "edit" function, but apparently it didn't take. Is the functionality geared for MSIE users only, I wonder?

I still think it's too early to say if things are really going better, but they seem to be on the right road. Would've been a lot better were it not for a couple of all in losses just now! But, still in the black.

Just for the sake of it, calling all in pre-flop with AK is unwise, yes or no? Against my better judgement, I just did and got beat, of course. Dude had JJ and ended up with three of 'em.

Pelion

11-22-2005, 08:10 AM

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I dont call pre-flop all-ins without pairs unless he is a maniac. I am reliably informed that QQ upwards is a good place to go at this limit.
Again dont be calling someone whos only played 1 hand out of the last 100 and he goes all in out of nowhere. He has AA, KK and someone else will call him so you dont have to

.

My 0.02 from 5NL

Xianti

11-27-2005, 12:59 AM

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Vrax

11-27-2005, 01:52 AM

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What about your HH's? Especially those with premium hands.

I remember my first hand histories from penny poker, got some feedback, asked myself "Why raise here? Why should I fold those kings? Queens no good? Why push here?" etc. Guys here know their stuff, I recommend you to post those hands, even if they seem textbook play for you.

BTW. Aok's counterplay is LETHAL on super loose tables, but it requires also some reads to apply. If you for example put someone on tptk (small bets and such then check the river in heads up), you can make a big bet even with your overpair (like AA that failed to limp reraise), you don't need a set or better for this, really. If someone bets small and on turn bets like 1/3-1/2 pots against 3 players its clear sign of 2 pair or better and tptk is no good. 3rd to flush falls on the river and it checked around? Your top two is g00t, pound it hard and make them THINK, and make that loose calls that they really love...

GL

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Checkways

11-27-2005, 02:08 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 249

Every limit can be beaten. Even the $4k/$8k game at the Bellagio. I only assume that because why would they keep playing it then?

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