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kstarm
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11-09-2005, 01:06 AM
Post subject: Some help with pre-flop odds
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 168
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I was playing last night with some friends and got to wondering about these hands. One of the guys I was playing with was short-stacked and would go AI with any pocket pair; I am wondering what my pre-flop odds are with these hands. Assume he has 55
1. JTs
2. JTo
3. J6s
4. J6o
5. J40
I figure they are all pretty much a coin flip (except J4) but curiousity has gotten the better of me. I would think suited connectors would be better than unsuited, straight possibilty better than gappers, etc... but part of me thinks that it doesn't matter and that this is the classic battle of overcards versus pocket pairs regardless.
Thanks for any help
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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1. 52.2% you
2. 50.5% you
3. 53% him
4. 55.1% him
5. 69.6% him
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds...oiMC4yMjEiO30=
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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even better
www.pokerstove.com
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kstarm
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 168
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Thanks for the link- I did some more calculations with the program and was a little confused about this situation:
QJs vs 55 51% to 49%
JTs vs 55 52.5% to 47.5%
I realize that this isn't that big of a difference and comtemplating this specific hand in itself isn't going to make me any richer, however to see any difference in the odds at all suprises me. I would think that these hands would be exactly the same (cards in the deck, chances of these cards coming up on the board, etc...) Does this just happen based on the algorithum pokerstove uses, or is there some other reason for this difference?
Thanks again
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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JTs is slightly better as it is more likely to make a straight
QJs can make: AKQJT, KQJT9, QJT98 JT987
JTs can make: AKQJT, KQJT9, QJT98, JT987, T9876
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kstarm
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 168
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Thanks- another quick noobie question.
Is a nut flush the best flush and the nuts, or is it just the best flush?
I was playing with someone who had an Ace high flush and he called it the nut flush before turning it over at the showdown, even though the board had paired-leaving a boat possibility.
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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I think nut flush is usually taken to mean the best possible flush - doesnt have to be the best possible hand.
but i could be wrong.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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i think the nut flush is the A high flush, shouldnt matter if there is a pair on board, it just isnt the nuts in this case. if someone had a straight flush it wouldnt be the nut flush, would just be a straight flush.
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adiamant
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mass.
Posts: 64
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Yeah, nut flush is the A hich flush. Not necessarily the nuts.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by adiamant
Yeah, nut flush is the A hich flush. Not necessarily the nuts.
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Hmmm which of the following is the "nut flush" then?
1) :Ah: :Jh: :Th:  
or
2) :Jh: :Th:  
stidriver seems to say # 1, whereas jimmymac says #2
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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A nut flush is just an Ace high flush.
#2 is not just a "flush", it is a straight flush. It is stronger than the nut flush.
You do not have a nut straight flush, that is called a "Royal Flush".
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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but couldnt the nut straight flush be the best possible straight flush, like if the board is 5h 6h 7h. someone could have 3h 4h for a straight flush, and someone 8h 9h for the nut straight flush?
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Haha, okay we'll go over it.
If a straight flush is on the board, the term "the nuts" is used because you can easily identify if you have the best hand or not. Its an extremely rare hand, so when you have it, you can be sure you have the nuts and just say "I have the nuts" flipping over a straight flush.
A flush on the other hand is rather common, I can't remember the last time I did a session where I didn't see a few flushes even in live ring play within a couple hours. So the term nut flush is used more commonly because chances are, someone has that ace, that ace makes the best flush, its the nut flush.
No one uses the term nut straight flush because generally, a striaght flush is not competing against another straight flush. However, flush vs flush is very common. "I got the king high", "Well, I got the nut flush".
Make sense?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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It makes sense but I disagree with you. Board is 5 6 7 8 hearts Q spades. You have 4h 4d. You re-raise and your oppo pushes over the top. Does he have a straight, a flush, the nut flush the nine of hearts? The latter may not be likely but it's far from impossible.
So while straight flushes are very very rare, it's not all *that* rare to have two straight flushes competing when the board makes it possible.
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Pyroxene
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 236
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
It makes sense but I disagree with you. Board is 5 6 7 8 hearts Q spades. You have 4h 4d. You re-raise and your oppo pushes over the top. Does he have a straight, a flush, the nut flush the nine of hearts? The latter may not be likely but it's far from impossible.
So while straight flushes are very very rare, it's not all *that* rare to have two straight flushes competing when the board makes it possible.
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In such a case, the player with the 9h has 'the nuts'. Any time you have a hand that cannot be beaten it is simply 'the nuts'.
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Pyroxene
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
It makes sense but I disagree with you. Board is 5 6 7 8 hearts Q spades. You have 4h 4d. You re-raise and your oppo pushes over the top. Does he have a straight, a flush, the nut flush the nine of hearts? The latter may not be likely but it's far from impossible.
So while straight flushes are very very rare, it's not all *that* rare to have two straight flushes competing when the board makes it possible.
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Okay, yes, there is that one scenario which I have never seen in my time. You got me there.
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TLR
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,007
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'The nut flush' is the best possible flush that can be completed.
If the 'A' is not on board then A high flush is the nut flush.
If an 'A' is on the board but the K is not then 'AK' high flush is the nut flush
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