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shysti
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03-14-2006, 07:25 PM
Post subject: So when can I move from SNG's to strictly MTT's?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Internetz
Posts: 838
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I've decided to take my poker playing a lot more serious, and with my new job I'll be able to put any where from 300.oo+ a month into my bankroll, without affecting my other finances.
With that kind of dollar cost averaging, what level of sng's should I start at? I am a fairly decent player, still have a few leaks, plus once I do get used to doing sng's (I normally play nothing but MTT's but my bankroll is so volitile because again I wasn't taking it as serious as I want to now) when should I move to MTT's, say in the 10+1 range and up?
shysti
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Answer to question:
When you have a big bankroll.
I love playing in MTTs, but the variance is so high that I have lost a good bit of money on them. The reason was I only had a br of like 2-300 and I was playing $10 mtts. Even great players can go for many many tournaments before they make a big cash.
SNGs are not as swingy as MTTs but they are still very swingy.
I would recommend cash games. If you multitable, the swings aren't nearly as bad as tournaments. My plan, as outlined in a thread in the Online Poker Rooms section, is to amass a substantial bankroll solely through beating cash games.
I would suggest you grind and whore your way up to about 2k before you attempt solely playing tournaments. And at that point still only play 22s and 33s maximum. With $2000 you could weather quite a downswing at those stakes.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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^ Not a good reply. He asked when he could do something, not ask what games he should play. Also, Ring is probably more swingy than SnGs.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
^ Not a good reply. He asked when he could do something, not ask what games he should play. Also, Ring is probably more swingy than SnGs.
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Groan.
I did not mean for my post to sound like a pissing contest between Ring and SNGs.
With a small bankroll, cash games are the way to go, IMO. The reason for this is that to build a bankroll quickly, bonus whoring is necessary. Its difficult/impossible (depending on site) to whore through sngs.
Also, I replied to his original question (When can I play MTT's exclusively?). You have to have a large bankroll to weather the swings of MTTs.
I really like it a lot more when people say "I disagree with Renton's post, and here's why," then when people say "Renton's response wasn't good." A forum is a place to give opinions, not to state absolutes.
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shysti
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Internetz
Posts: 838
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Answer to question:
When you have a big bankroll.
I love playing in MTTs, but the variance is so high that I have lost a good bit of money on them. The reason was I only had a br of like 2-300 and I was playing $10 mtts. Even great players can go for many many tournaments before they make a big cash.
SNGs are not as swingy as MTTs but they are still very swingy.
I would recommend cash games. If you multitable, the swings aren't nearly as bad as tournaments. My plan, as outlined in a thread in the Online Poker Rooms section, is to amass a substantial bankroll solely through beating cash games.
I would suggest you grind and whore your way up to about 2k before you attempt solely playing tournaments. And at that point still only play 22s and 33s maximum. With $2000 you could weather quite a downswing at those stakes.
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Oh I am a tournament player through and through, my ring game skills are clost to non existant, I really don't know the 1st thing about mastering ring games. I have since I've started playing poker (live) played tournaments, and find that is where I am best at.
My recent MTT finish was 65th out of 1850 people
and my record goes something like
39th out of 943
48th out of 602
106th out of 1740
60th out of 2062
81st out of 1027
28th out of 1314
38th out of 1024
9th out of 1060
133th out of 1204
I've noticed in these MTT's I've finished in the top 10%, but I can't seem to seal the deal with a final table, so I've decided to go to Sngs to build my bankroll up and then go back to my MTT's, thus the result of me starting this thread.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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I've been giving this a lot of thought myself recently. I really like MTTs and I find them a lot more entertaining than SnGs, but they can be a big drain to the bankroll if your roll isn't big and you're not playing anything else to compensate for the infrequent cashes. I was fooling around with MTTs for a while and probably spent $150 on them before I was like, well this isn't very good for my roll. I don't really know what the "correct" thing to do is, although I imagine it's perhaps to play a mix of SnGs and MTTs to start off with. That way you can kind of work on your final table skills (I play the 2 table SnGS mostly) and earn a little bit of money while sampling the MTTs.
I think what I'm going to do is play SnGs until I get my roll up to a thousand dollars, and then I'm going to play $11 FOs exclusively for a while and see how I do. 100 buyins should be enough to play them exclusively for a short period of time. I dunno if this is a good or bad idea, just kind of something I feel like doing/experimenting with.
First I gotta find time to play SnGs and get the roll up to $1000 though!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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shysti
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Internetz
Posts: 838
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
I've been giving this a lot of thought myself recently. I really like MTTs and I find them a lot more entertaining than SnGs, but they can be a big drain to the bankroll if your roll isn't big and you're not playing anything else to compensate for the infrequent cashes. I was fooling around with MTTs for a while and probably spent $150 on them before I was like, well this isn't very good for my roll. I don't really know what the "correct" thing to do is, although I imagine it's perhaps to play a mix of SnGs and MTTs to start off with. That way you can kind of work on your final table skills (I play the 2 table SnGS mostly) and earn a little bit of money while sampling the MTTs.
I think what I'm going to do is play SnGs until I get my roll up to a thousand dollars, and then I'm going to play $11 FOs exclusively for a while and see how I do. 100 buyins should be enough to play them exclusively for a short period of time. I dunno if this is a good or bad idea, just kind of something I feel like doing/experimenting with.
First I gotta find time to play SnGs and get the roll up to $1000 though!
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Keep in touch withme on this, as I will be doing the same exact thing, I plan on depositing 300 a month into my bankroll from my normal pay, I might just deposit the 1000 right away to see, but I want to sample more Sngs first as I usually play mostly MTT's.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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100 buyins is fine.
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fjuanl
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,446
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i thought i would try mtt only for a while but i just about killed myself with the variance. or just the consistant river 2 outers that bubble me after 3 hours of playing
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azureXsmurF
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Delaware, USA
Posts: 170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
With a small bankroll, cash games are the way to go, IMO. The reason for this is that to build a bankroll quickly, bonus whoring is necessary. Its difficult/impossible (depending on site) to whore through sngs.
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I passed the recent bonus on Stars far easier playing SnGs than Ring... mainly because I couldn't make the sort of deposit to put me in stakes high enough to get enough FPPs to pass it in any rational amount of time. Then again, I only put $100 in and am playing 5NL until I've got at least 200 bucks... probably longer so that I don't fuck myself up the ass by moving up before I'm ready confidence/skill wise.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
I would recommend cash games. If you multitable, the swings aren't nearly as bad as tournaments.
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I have never played sngs or mtt's seriously/exclusively, but I strongly suspect that this is not true. I guess it depends on your style. If you 100% nut-peddle, then the variance might not be too big, but once you get away from straight-up camping, the downswings in cash games can get very nasty, especially if you throw in some short-handed games. The upswings though, are nothing short of awesome. Feels good to win the equivalent of a 2-week paycheck in an hour. 
To the original poster, sorry I sort of hijacked your thread, and can't really give any meaningful advice. 
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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Also I think if you played the 180s on starts 75 buyins is plenty.
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shysti
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Internetz
Posts: 838
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You know I've been away from poker for 2 months and completely forgot about the 180 man sng, I think I'll will give those a try. 75 buy ins, hmm I'll try that.
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