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taipan168

11-05-2006, 09:45 PM Post subject: SNG player looking to learn cash, tips?

#1 (permalink)

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Hi all,

I'm a SNG player who finally wants to take the plunge and learn to play cash. Whilst low buyin SNGs are fun (and pretty soft at the moment), there must be more to poker than pushing preflop!

A bit about me - I started out playing $0.01/$0.02 microstakes with a $20 transfer from a friend, ground that up to $100 over about 10,000 hands then started playing SNGs and haven't really played cash since. My BR is now around $1100-1200, I'm currently playing the $16 turbos on Stars but I feel an inability to play cash is starting to become a real deficiency and learning cash will help my SNG game anyway.

A few quick questions:

- I've read Renton's NL guide, what other posts should I read?
- I remember that Party's 25NL games were reputed to be very soft indeed, but now the US fish can't play there is 25NL at Stars a reasonable place to jump in? I'd like to play somewhere where the play even vaguely resembles real money, I remember the microstakes played like a play money table most times.
- What are the major adjustments that you need to make from SNGs to cash? (I'm talking about NOT doing things like "QQ, weeee push preflop" and "AK, A on flop, push flop"). I've been told that cash games play sort of like level 1 at an SNG but even then chip preservation is paramount, particularly at the turbos that I play.

Thanks in advance!

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AHiltz

11-05-2006, 09:50 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Study the hands posted on here for comment. Ring and SnG's play differently. I started as a SnG player and switched to ring after a year. Took me a while to become a winning player at ring.

donkbee

11-05-2006, 09:51 PM

#3 (permalink)

WELP

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oh jeez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

sejje

11-05-2006, 11:32 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 883

You could always play the non-US fish at party. Just a thought.

swiggidy

11-06-2006, 04:36 AM Post subject: Re: SNG player looking to learn cash, tips?

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

- What are the major adjustments that you need to make from SNGs to cash? (I'm talking about NOT doing things like "QQ, weeee push preflop" and "AK, A on flop, push flop"). I've been told that cash games play sort of like level 1 at an SNG but even then chip preservation is paramount, particularly at the turbos that I play.

First off, welcome to FTR!!!

You need to learn to play the turn and river, that's all. Pre-flop and flop are kinda-sorta similar to early in a SnG. Reading NLHT&P helped my analytical analysis of play.

Or, "make sets, get paide" if you will.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

martindcx1e

11-06-2006, 05:54 AM

#6 (permalink)

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another one on the bandwagon lol. you generally don't want to play big pots without the nuts or near-nuts. give enough action so that you get action on monsters, but don't give so much action that you are a spew-bot.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

vqc

11-06-2006, 10:25 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 5,427

raise lots of pretty hands in position
implied odds are the SHIT!
play 6 max.
full ring sucks =)

Renton

11-06-2006, 10:29 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

stacks are deep now

arkana

11-06-2006, 11:52 AM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,109

Deeper stacks -> more postflop play -> more complex decisions.

Position is very important, you can control the pot size and you have more information.

Implied odds is much bigger but so is reverse implied odds.

Miffed22001

11-06-2006, 01:23 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

dont stack off with one pair unless given a reason
implied odds rule, the fish will pay you.
if you got it all in with a set you played it right.
The turn is the important street for pot building
lead with big hands, dont c/c or slow play, stack size is much more important than in tourney play.

biondino

11-06-2006, 01:33 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Believe fish when they raise.

swiggidy

11-06-2006, 04:29 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

stack size is much more important than in tourney play.

This is not true.
But, since you are a tourney player you will be aware of the stack sizes, which is still important.

Also, you can gamble more with the short stacks. You don't have to be 65% + to win the hand because of ICM, you only have to be 51% for it to be +eV.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

taipan168

11-06-2006, 07:38 PM Post subject: Re: SNG player looking to learn cash, tips?

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Or, "make sets, get paid" if you will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

if you got it all in with a set you played it right.

What, like this?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($14.35)
CO ($10.10)
Button ($7.60)
SB ($9.35)
BB ($9.20)
UTG ($5.05)
Hero ($15.45)
MP1 ($9.45)
MP2 ($8.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T

, T

.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.40, 4 folds, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.25) 6

, T

, 2

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.6, MP2 raises to $2.6, BB folds, Hero raises to $9.7, MP2 calls $5.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($19.15) 5

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($19.15) 3

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $19.15

Results below:
Hero has Tc Td (three of a kind, tens).
MP2 has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $19.15.

swiggidy

11-06-2006, 07:48 PM Post subject: Re: SNG player looking to learn cash, tips?

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

What, like this?

Nice, 2 things.

You may want to raise more pre-flop, 4x is good at higher stakes, but you may have to go 5-8BB depending on the table so you're isolated more often.

On the flop start betting 3/4-full pot instead of 1/2 - 3/4. So with a connected, 2 flush board just pot it. A raggy disconnected board bet 3/4 pot.

I basically only use the 1/2 pot against weak/tighties who always fold if they miss and always check-raise when they hit.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

donkbee

11-06-2006, 07:53 PM Post subject: Re: SNG player looking to learn cash, tips?

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

On the flop start betting 3/4-full pot instead of 1/2 - 3/4. So with a connected, 2 flush board just pot it. A raggy disconnected board bet 3/4 pot.

Definitely something people have been telling me since I started playing cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

Elexshun

11-06-2006, 08:00 PM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Da planet Earf

Posts: 46

Two things:

1. Playing at that limit, more than half the players are just banging around chips with a limited concept of what they are doing. So, just play your strong hands strong and fold your weak hands. Don't worry about getting creative. (in the mean time study study and get ready for the move up in stakes)
2. Do not raise under the gun with 10 10 in a full ring game. With 10 10 from early position you are looking to play it the same way as you would any other small pp. If rags come and noone has raised preflop, you are probably good, so bet it then.

donkbee

11-06-2006, 08:08 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexshun

2. Do not raise under the gun with 10 10 in a full ring game. With 10 10 from early position you are looking to play it the same way as you would any other small pp. If rags come and noone has raised preflop, you are probably good, so bet it then.

Some cash players I have talked to disagree with this and like raising TT UTG. I would raise it because it's a strong hand and also because I have the ability to get away from it if it's clear I'm beat post flop.

Uh ... then again I suck at cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

taipan168

11-06-2006, 08:09 PM

#18 (permalink)

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OMG I have so much to learn

Warpe

11-06-2006, 08:10 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Uh ... then again I suck at cash.

Maintaining a positive attitude helps, too.

martindcx1e

11-06-2006, 08:11 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexshun

some cash players raise all pairs from all positions...gasp!

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

donkbee

11-06-2006, 08:12 PM

#21 (permalink)

WELP

Join Date: May 2005

Location: so close but so far

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Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

OMG I have so much to learn

ME TOOOO

omg i have rent to pay this was such a bad idea ahhhh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

XTR1000

11-06-2006, 08:21 PM

#22 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vqc

play 6 max.

i made the switch from sng´s to cash games 2 months ago. i felt more comfortable at fr than at 6max. when multitabling your better farming on full rings to get used to the cash games.

Kits

11-06-2006, 10:12 PM

#23 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Australia

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Come play at Party. There's no need to worry since the US fish left. Plenty still to go around. They do seem slightly more aggressive though.

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

martindcx1e

11-06-2006, 10:18 PM

#24 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kits

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

as in it is easier to learn 6max then fr? i hope that's not what you mean.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

Kits

11-07-2006, 10:14 AM

#25 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Australia

Posts: 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kits

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

as in it is easier to learn 6max then fr? i hope that's not what you mean.

No - as in I think I learnt a lot more about playing poker at 6max rather than full ring. Probably didn't word that too well.

Pay4myCad!!

11-08-2006, 03:00 PM

#26 (permalink)

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Location: Oklahoma, at some point in the next 15 yrs... Apparently

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Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kits

I think the learning curve is much better on 6max than full ring....

as in it is easier to learn 6max then fr? i hope that's not what you mean.

I agree martin.
For an experienced SNG player the transition to 6-max should be smooth. At least in consideration of hand selection. The same starting hands will be a bit on the loose side in FR.
(i.e. marginal hands going up in value with a smaller field.)

Other factors might involve bonus-clearing potential and a desire to multi-table, in which case I would push for FR.

Of course I have bad days...
Sometimes I'll go a whole day without quads.

gabe

11-08-2006, 05:14 PM

#27 (permalink)

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position is very important

Fnord

11-08-2006, 05:19 PM

#28 (permalink)

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Build pots.
Learn to pick games/seats and when to find another one.
Keep gambling with the table sucker.
Don't expect most players to stack off as easily as the early action in SnGs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

pokerroomace

11-09-2006, 10:25 AM

#29 (permalink)

Full House

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Posts: 783

in the first level of sng play, the only hands that i am happy to play are AA, KK, QQ and AK. All other hands I'm happy folding preflop. Hands like JJ, TT and AQ I'll play, but if there's a lot of strength shown i'll just fold probably. i might play worse hands but only if it is folded to me and i'm in late position.
doubling up early in an sng doesn't mean much to me. i'd rather just fold the first 30-40 hands until it is 6 handed and then start building my stack by stealing blinds.

this isn't how you're supposed to play FR is it? this would mean folding 3 or 4 orbits at a time and then making pennies when i do get AA.

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

swiggidy

11-09-2006, 03:10 PM

#30 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

In the U.S. there was this bill... Bill Frist? Port Security?

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

martindcx1e

11-09-2006, 03:55 PM

#31 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

In the U.S. there was this bill... Bill Frist? Port Security?

maybe someday i'll be a real boy

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

pokerroomace

11-09-2006, 11:06 PM

#32 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

also, is the play at partypoker really weak? if so, why don't all you sharks play there? why do you play at stars that has a reputation for being really tough?

In the U.S. there was this bill... Bill Frist? Port Security?

what are you talking about?
are you and martin making sarcastic jokes?

i was asking a serious question. if the play at party is much easier than the play at stars, then why do some of you guys play at stars rather than party?

is it to improve your game?
or is it because the standard of play at stars is just as easy as party?
or is it because you like the interface at stars more?
or is it because the rake is lower there?
or is it a few of these things?

i'm asking a serious question here!

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

donkbee

11-09-2006, 11:08 PM

#33 (permalink)

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US players aren't allowed to play there anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

pokerroomace

11-10-2006, 03:19 PM

#34 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

ok thanks

http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.

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