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AFchung
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07-15-2008, 10:54 PM
Post subject: Slowplaying big hands preflop
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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A lot of the time i look down at KK and AA and its folded to me on the button. I make my standard 3x raise and the blinds go out. So much value i got there 
With any drawing hand i would raise, since i don't really have an actual hand yet. But for high pocket pairs, is it okay to just limp in and hope that one of the blinds makes top pair or tries to bluff at the pot?
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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-ev to limp on the button with a big hand. Sometimes okay in the sb.
Remember you want to isolate your big hands.. if you raise and they call, you can assign a range .. if you limp, their range is 72o+
Go ahead and try doing it if you want, but I guarantee your next post will be about some idiot in the sb that caught 2 pair and stacked you when you had AA.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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If he's not even calling that from the BB he probably wasn't going to give you much action even if he hit a pair. He would give you a lot of action if he hits 2, a set or a big draw - so there's your problem.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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ponyboy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Session I just ended I cracked AA twice - once with J7 in the BB when the guy only minraised so I had proper odds and once with KJs when the guy only limped and I was in middle position.
If both of them had raised stronger I probably would have folded both hands. Maybe not the KJ if I was in better position but definitely the J7.
It happens and eventually you will get a big pot with one of these hands.
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a500lbgorilla
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07-16-2008, 12:11 AM
Post subject: Re: Slowplaying big hands preflop
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#5 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
A lot of the time i look down at KK and AA and its folded to me on the button. I make my standard 3x raise and the blinds go out. So much value i got there
With any drawing hand i would raise, since i don't really have an actual hand yet. But for high pocket pairs, is it okay to just limp in and hope that one of the blinds makes top pair or tries to bluff at the pot? |
Raise more hands when it's folded to you on the btn. Who needs aces to have everyone fold!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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That's a good point. I don't keep track of much, but I do know who didn't raise for the last couple of orbits.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Open limping KK+ can be a part of a winning NLHE strategy, but it requires more balance and planning than you should probably invest at microstakes into preflop play.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Robb
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07-17-2008, 04:45 PM
Post subject: Re: Slowplaying big hands preflop
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#8 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
A lot of the time i look down at KK and AA and its folded to me on the button. I make my standard 3x raise and the blinds go out. So much value i got there
With any drawing hand i would raise, since i don't really have an actual hand yet. But for high pocket pairs, is it okay to just limp in and hope that one of the blinds makes top pair or tries to bluff at the pot? |
What's a good win rate for a hand? I'll check PT when I get home from work, but I'm pretty certain that even premium hands don't typically earn more than 1 ptBB / hand, i.e. 100 ptBB/100 win rate.
BB + SB = .75 ptBB / hand, i.e. 75 ptBB/100 win rate. That's 10x my win rate at 10nl!! That's why blind stealing is so valuable. It's free money, it's uncontested money and it's BIG money relative to typical win rates for typical solid hands.
Two more things.
1. Building a big pot is difficult without a preflop raise, so you can easily cough up value by not raising AA and KK pre.
2. When you get AA cracked 'cuz you let 53o in from the BB, you'll want to slit your wrists and hurl and smash your computer. And death and vomit and broken computers are -EV.
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sarbox68
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07-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Post subject: Re: Slowplaying big hands preflop
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#9 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
And death and vomit and broken computers are -EV.
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Have you been reading Noted Poker Authority again....? 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Generally, what makes you money in the unlimited hold'them is playing your big hands so fast that people don't know if you've got the goods or are batshit insane.
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Robb
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07-17-2008, 05:26 PM
Post subject: Re: Slowplaying big hands preflop
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#11 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
And death and vomit and broken computers are -EV.
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Have you been reading Noted Poker Authority again....? |
I'm a math geek. I ran some numbers. Figured it out all on my own. 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Limping the button with 50bb+ stacks in a cash game is really terrible.
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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Not according to Sklansky I guess.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlyingSaucy
Not according to Sklansky I guess.
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I'm not certain that's true. Sklansky doesn't typically address microstakes poker, which Fnord specifically is. What's +EV changes depending upon game conditions. Generally, Sklansky is talking about tougher games with better opponents than PokerStars 10nl 6max. Sklansky specifically addresses level 2 and level 3 thinking in most of his writing, so it would stand to reas that it only applies to opponents who both notice and react to Hero's different actions.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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With reasonably deep stacks you raise because you have the button and a better than random hand. You want to start building a pot and put pressure on the blinds to just fold. In an unraked game with a post-flop edge raising any 2 can't be that big of a mistake. In a live, unraked game, I wouldn't even look.
I would tighten up a bit if the blinds call down very light. I would also tighten up a bit more if you're getting 3-bet light (so you tend to have a stronger range and can flat or 4-bet more often.)
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Yesterday, for example, I scooped a 200bb pot with K3o in the BB from an AA BTN limper aka slowrolling donkey by flopping top and bottom and boating up on the river (not that I needed the boat) so, no, it's not a good idea.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
so, no, it's not a good idea.
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... to play AA like the nuts in a 100 SPR pot.
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