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Outlaw
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03-13-2009, 10:05 PM
Post subject: Shoving>folding
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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So you've just played about 500 hands and are up a buy-in.. you pick up AKs and the flop is Q92 giving you the nut flush draw and two overs. The villain reraises your flop c-bet. Your only play seems to be to shove or fold. You have just spent the past 30 minutes building up a buy-in and hate to waste it in one hand.. so you fold.
WHAT THE F!@# ARE YOU DOING YOU WEAK-TIGHT PIECE OF.... !!
So you lose the hand and you are back at even, big whoop.. if you win (which you will a ton here).. you are up 2 buy-ins. Depending on the opponent, he will also fold at LEAST 20% of the time here.
Stop being a nit and go for it! (this is as much a message to myself as anyone else lol)
This is not an extreme example.. I think I fold WAY too often when the obvious play was to shove. I think understand equity against ranges is a skill any player needs to get to the highest levels and something that under-studied by players. Well.. maybe that is a good thing for us?
My whole point for starting this thread is for people to post sample hands where we should shove instead of fold and then have people discuss it. (please post what you think the opponents range is or his stats/history with you etc and leave out results)
I hope this thread becomes a good place for people to come and post spots where they think its a marginal jam or fold situation and we can all help improve each others thinking about ranges.
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sil693
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 609
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if we are up a BI, and then win a BI, how are we up 4 BI?
imo.
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pocketfours
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03-13-2009, 10:28 PM
Post subject: Re: Shoving>folding
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#3 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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If your folding problem is the worst thing about your game then you are in good shape.
The main reason you need to shove this is that you dominate lower flushdraws which are likely hands when you face a flop c/r. At micro stakes you probably don't have a lot of fold equity.
Just remember that poker is all about making plays that will show long term profit, however slight.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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If we have the nut flush draw + 6 clean over outs and 20% FE how could anyone ever fold? I think that example is a bit too extreme. It's all about making the most EV play, and sometimes oEV is the way to go, sometimes not.
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