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Biglines
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09-24-2008, 08:52 PM
Post subject: Is this a shove? - overpair on flop
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 108
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($11.50)
MP ($6.82)
Hero (Button) ($9.91)
SB ($13.65)
BB ($6.05)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J , J
UTG raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.07) 4 , 5, 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1, UTG raises to $1.70,
Hero ??
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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depends on villain
does he 4bet his big pairs or AK, does he open raise low pairs pf. etc etc
with no reads I could be incline to let it go.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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Biglines
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 108
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If villain had AA or KK, maybe even QQ they would have reraised preflop so at this point Im fairly sure I have the best hand. At the same time Im not that keen on seeing overcards on the turn or river.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biglines
If villain had AA or KK, maybe even QQ they would have reraised preflop so at this point Im fairly sure I have the best hand.
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I wouldn't be so sure of that at the micros.
Micro donks love to flat QQ+ cause they're worried about scaring people away.
Some reads here would be nice though. This situation is highly villain dependent. vs an unknown I'm inclined to fold given that there so much money behind still, and the flop action is intimidating to say the least.
Without a read that he's doing this with missed overs, that leaves 99+, and I'd weigh it heavier on the QQ+ end than on the 99-TT end.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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i think he's got you beat. he raised UTG so its possible he has QQ+
also,, he could be raising with a Pp and just hit a set. can't really see him having any other hands than a higher overpair or a set
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Why would he lead 30 cents? Either he's really weak or really strong. After he MINRAISES you back, it says he is really strong and he's begging for a call.
I fold vs. an unknown
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JinxT4
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 265
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biglines
If villain had AA or KK, maybe even QQ they would have reraised preflop so at this point Im fairly sure I have the best hand. At the same time Im not that keen on seeing overcards on the turn or river.
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False. Looks like an easy fold as played.
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[04:18] <+Bbickes> do u has teh agoraphobia?
[04:18] <+fat> im agressive yes
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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your mistake is raising the flop. r/f should not be an option but unfortunately it will save you money if you aren't happy anymore about getting it in.
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Biglines
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 108
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
your mistake is raising the flop. r/f should not be an option but unfortunately it will save you money if you aren't happy anymore about getting it in.
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Why is raising the flop here a mistake? I dont get it......
Villain has made a weak bet on the flop - sure he could be trying to keep me in the hand, at the same time this could just be a weak cbet. I have a decent overpair and want to get some value.
His bet sizing is terrible when he bets .30 on the flop. His 4bet is also pretty weak.
I cant see a fold here
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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First off, you need to raise preflop to about .70.
But raising isn't a mistake as long as you go with your reads and call/get it in because our raise should be for value/protection and if we fold then we kind of turned our hand that could be crushing his in equity into a bluff which is never good. I didn't realize his 4bet was so weak but I don't know, I think he can have QQ+/set too often to make getting it in a happy thing for me so I'd elect to just call vs. an unknown as it creates a wider range because now he can be stubborn and just (semi)bluffing.
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Biglines
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 108
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
First off, you need to raise preflop to about .70. .
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Would it be possible for you to explain how you get to this amount for the bet sizing??
The way he has played the hand up to this point I put villain on overcards, most likely AK.
Im pretty happy to shove in this situation because if I call and an A, K or Q hits on the turn I will have a pretty difficult decision if he bets again.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I think all we beat is 99 and TT.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biglines
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
First off, you need to raise preflop to about .70. .
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Would it be possible for you to explain how you get to this amount for the bet sizing??
The way he has played the hand up to this point I put villain on overcards, most likely AK.
Im pretty happy to shove in this situation because if I call and an A, K or Q hits on the turn I will have a pretty difficult decision if he bets again. |
Basically it's a pot sized raise (3.5x). You don't want to make a pot sized bet always but in 3bet pots preflop aim for 3.5x in position and 4x out. Why do you put him on overcards? I've learned to give unknowns respect until they have lost it and having AK or overs would be a semibluff which is a very rare concept used by microstakers therefore I'd give him the benefit of the doubt until he has proven, at showdown, he can start 3betting post flop with worse. If you honestly have this read that it's most likely overs then calling and trying to extract more on the turn or raising now knowing he can call/raise with overs is fine. But noticed we should rarely raise for info., which would make us fold after our raise. That line just sucks, not sure if you understand that or not, because I do contradict myself by saying we should fold now in my original response. I just feel we raised for the wrong reasons and played to LOSE the minimum as opposed to GAIN the maximum so now it's time to be pissed and fold. We don't want to be pissed and fold, so the whole raise/fold thing = pissing us off = not good.
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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this all depends on what i have on the villian from data mining or previous plays...
this is clearly an all-in or fold situation...
with no read and no information based on the size of the stacks i will fold...
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