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RevolverX
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05-08-2006, 08:47 PM
Post subject: Should I be raising more preflop at 10 NL?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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I'm getting AK AQ AJ KQ KJ QJ AT etc busted far too often because I get way too many callers preflop. Here is my standard play:
FOr AK AQ and AJs I raise 4x bb to .40 cents. Usually about 1-2 callers.
For AJ and AT I raise 3.5x BB. Usually about 1-3 callers.
For KQ KJ and TT I raise 3x bb to .30. About 2-4 callers.
For QJ and 99 I raise 2.5x bb to .25. Everyone calls.
Any tips on which overcard hands I could raise preflop better with?
EDIT: I should know that I play at 6 person tables. I heard this is way better than 8 or 10 people tables.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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Raise 4xbb + 1bb per limper, regardless of your hand. raising more with your better hands tips off your hands as being better or worse. additionally, you never want to raise less than 4xbb because you get too many callers.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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For a start, don't base the size of your raise on what cards you're holding. If you're raising, RAISE...3-4xBB plus 1BB for every limper
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RevolverX
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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I don't understand what is meant by plus 1bb for every limper. By this do you mean by being in the late position for callers, as in if 3 people before me called, I'd raise 7x bb?
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geoffm33
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greedo017
Raise 4xbb + 1bb per limper, regardless of your hand. raising more with your better hands tips off your hands as being better or worse. additionally, you never want to raise less than 4xbb because you get too many callers.
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and
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
For a start, don't base the size of your raise on what cards you're holding. If you're raising, RAISE...3-4xBB plus 1BB for every limper
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I like this, I have been raising pretty much like RevolverX. I will try this out.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
I don't understand what is meant by plus 1bb for every limper. By this do you mean by being in the late position for callers, as in if 3 people before me called, I'd raise 7x bb?
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Yes. Punish limpers for trying to see a cheap flop.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
FOr AK AQ and AJs I raise 4x bb to .40 cents.
For AJ and AT I raise 3.5x BB.
For KQ KJ and TT I raise 3x bb to .30.
For QJ and 99 I raise 2.5x bb to .25.
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How easy do you think this could make you to read?
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RevolverX
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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Ok before I put this plan into full action..
What about hands like QJo, KJo, TT, 99? They're fragile... 4xbb+ 1bb still?
What if I'm in early position with these hands? Still 4xbb?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Disregard the cards. If you're raising, raise...
Early position, yes, start at 4x, even with AA/KK (raising higher with these hands preflop when you're raising less with lesser holdings tips your hand). Sometimes the way the table is playing might dictate that you start higher, but usually 4x works.
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Fnord
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05-08-2006, 10:04 PM
Post subject: Re: Should I be raising more preflop at 10 NL?
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#9 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
For KQ KJ and TT I raise 3x bb to .30. About 2-4 callers.
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5x with these, you don't want action.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
For QJ and 99 I raise 2.5x bb to .25. Everyone calls.
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6x you really don't want action and maybe they put you on AA.
Start mixing in more min-bets, min-raies and over-limp-pushes then your path to total donkishness will be complete.
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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If you need to reraise, for instance, if you're holding a premium hand, make it 3x the original raise. These serious raises limit the number of callers in a hurry.
No matter what, it'll be far cheaper for you to have too few callers (i.e. none) with great hands than too many. At $10NL, "slow playing" AA/KK will cost you dearly.
Good Luck.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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just raise pot.
'tis very simple.
And fnord, you are awesome buddy.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Punish limpers, value bet weak hands, play big pots with big hands. NL holdem in a nutshell
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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flomo
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05-09-2006, 02:57 AM
Post subject: Re: Should I be raising more preflop at 10 NL?
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#13 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
For KQ KJ and TT I raise 3x bb to .30. About 2-4 callers.
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5x with these, you don't want action.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
For QJ and 99 I raise 2.5x bb to .25. Everyone calls.
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6x you really don't want action and maybe they put you on AA.
Start mixing in more min-bets, min-raies and over-limp-pushes then your path to total donkishness will be complete. |
i still can't stop laughing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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RevolverX
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05-09-2006, 04:15 AM
Post subject: Re: Should I be raising more preflop at 10 NL?
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#14 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by flomo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
For KQ KJ and TT I raise 3x bb to .30. About 2-4 callers.
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5x with these, you don't want action.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
For QJ and 99 I raise 2.5x bb to .25. Everyone calls.
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6x you really don't want action and maybe they put you on AA.
Start mixing in more min-bets, min-raies and over-limp-pushes then your path to total donkishness will be complete. |
i still can't stop laughing |
While this is funny to you, it really sounded like sound advice to me. Until I read it was from Fnord who is known for giving out sarcastic advice. I think I'll stick with the above 4x bb no matter what.
EDIT: Can we refrain from having this type of advice posted here? I realize this is from Fnord, and it's supposed to be funny, but those of us who are not acclimated to the game may take it seriously and lose tons of money as a result, thus destroying this sites purpose to help one another get better at poker. Thanks much =)
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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RevolverX: Think of it logically, the worst thing you could possibly do is telegraph your hand. (Well, I'm sure there are worse thing technically, but that's beside the point.) By betting all your hands the same your opponent won't be able to determine when you have AA and when you have 77 (or 98s). Just think about what you are doing, and you'll pick things up in due time.
Good luck
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Part of Fnord's advice was semi-serious, atleast in concept. Not the part of minraising, but if you raise your weaker holdings less and less, this not only means you'll be that much more readable, it also means you'll be getting more action on your weaker hands and less action on your better hands!
Ofcourse raising your weaker hands MORE is silly too.. while better than what you are doing lol. Just go with a standard 4BB. Then make it a bit higher if many people have limped before you. I don't "standard" add +1BB for every limper, it kinda depends too on how often these limpers will be calling raises, ie how the table plays.
The main thing to keep in mind is this: when you raise a hand, you want 1-2 callers. If you routinely get more callers than 2, then raise more! But the amount you raise cannot depend on your actual hand.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Actually, the issue of raising pf is one I've been thinking about a lot.
I've recently started raising with hands I would normally have limped if everyone ahead of me has folded.
So while I'll limp KJ, KQ, KJ, QJ I'll raise them if there are no limpers so far. And if the tables' not passive enough I'll junk them in early position.
I'm still raising with AJ, which I still don't know if it's a good idea or not. And I'm calling pfrs with AJs, AQs.
The only hands I open limp are small pockets pairs and the ocassional suited connector in midde-late postion.
I've also started occassioanly raising crap from the button. Just as an experiement when there's only a couple of early limpers.
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