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Should I push?

  
 
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lockpull
Old 03-08-2009, 08:43 PM     Post subject: Should I push? #1 (permalink)  
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Jus wondering if I overvalued this hand?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 3+0.30 Tournament, 3000/6000 Blinds 750 Ante (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t199458)
Hero (SB) (t70542)

Hero's M: 6.72

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, 5
Button calls t3000, Hero checks

Flop: (t13500) 2, Q, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: (t13500) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t12000, Hero raises to t36000, Button calls t24000

River: (t85500) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets t27792 (All-In), Button calls t27792

Total pot: t141084


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Stacks
Old 03-08-2009, 08:47 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I don't get the turn c/r. I assumed you were going to shove river anyways, even if you didn't hit two pair? If so, your going to be behind his range so often, and your turn c/r sizing makes a push on the river small, so he is going to call nearly everything he called turn with. Don't c/r turn.
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dev
Old 03-08-2009, 09:35 PM #3 (permalink)  
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What he said.

Also, you're never folding 2p on this board with these stacks and these blinds.
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lockpull
Old 03-08-2009, 09:55 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Thanks guys. I figured I should of put it all in on the turn (hind sight) but just wanted confirmation I did, in fact, screw that one up.


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dev
Old 03-08-2009, 10:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Considering how shallow the stacks are and how beatable your hand is on the turn, maybe a bet/fold there would be best. If he turns a draw and decides to go nuts with it than more power to him, next hand.
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xpaand
Old 03-09-2009, 02:51 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Yeah I would've bet a little bit on the turn, then went all-in on the river.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
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lockpull
Old 03-09-2009, 06:38 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Ok so a reverse the situation (since I have been on his side of this before) I was wondering what would you have done in the villian's position facing an all in on the turn?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 3+0.30 Tournament, 3000/6000 Blinds 750 Ante (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t199458)
Hero (SB) (t70542)

Hero's M: 6.72

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, 5
Button calls t3000, Hero checks

Flop: (t13500) 2, Q, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: (t13500) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t12000, Hero raises to t36000, Button calls t24000

River: (t85500) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets t27792 (All-In), Button calls t27792

Total pot: t141084

Results:
Button had 4, 6 (straight, six high).
Hero had J, 5 (two pair, Jacks and fives).
Outcome: Button won t141084


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Old 03-09-2009, 10:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
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c/c turn because after you check two streets your hand looks weak
then try to get your stack in on the river since you're at the top of your range
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dev
Old 03-09-2009, 03:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Honestly I like it as played by the button.

Turn gives us 12 outs, but we're still a 3:1 dog against pretty much anything. Bet to get your share of FE vs a player who checked 2 streets. We can call if we assume you're not check raising air, because you commit the rest of your stack there. If we miss the river, we don't lose any more, if we hit, we take the rest of your stack.

If that turn bet is an all in we have to fold, but a lot of people wouldn't fold a 12 outer there.
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whooper1970
Old 03-09-2009, 11:24 PM #10 (permalink)  
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well for me ,if i get none of the flop and he bets i probably will fold lol !!
thats just me tho
wh
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