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salempc

02-28-2006, 01:48 AM Post subject: Should I be proud of myself?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 21

HI!

It's been a while since I first started posting here about my experience in poker. Well, I am just returning to tell you all about my first games in real money poker.

I signed up through a promotion on Party Poker which gave me $50 ans $25 in bonus account, which were pretty easy to obtain. From there I began playing 4 $5 NL tables at once, but as I had little experience in multi-tabling, I couldn't focus enough and lost about 10-15 dollars.

After that I tried to go up limits. I began playing $10 NL at 2 tables. This time I began to note that my concentration increased, and I began to make money, slowly but surely.

When I hit $75, I began to play at 3 $10 NL tables. Little later I went on to 4 tables, where I began to increase my bankrollto about $170. At that time I felt invincible.

But, my happy story has a twist here. I recently had a pretty bad beat, and went on tilt for 2-3 days. I lost nearly all my money. When I hit $7 I knew that things were wrong.

I took my last chance at a $6 SnG Multitable. I gave it my full concentration in an attempt to get the big $40 price. I finished 4th, with $10 prize. Well, at least I had a profit.

Just today I had another bad beat, but i was abke to control myself. I signed up at a $6 Sng Single Table and won first prize $25.

Now I am 3 tabling in $5 NL and doing good. I feel pretty proud of myself. Does anybody have any advice or comment about this?

Just felt like telling my story to you ppl, as this forum got me started.

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swiggidy

02-28-2006, 02:09 AM Post subject: Re: Should I be proud of myself?

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

I signed up through a promotion on Party Poker which gave me $50 ans $25 in bonus account, which were pretty easy to obtain. From there I began playing 4 $5 NL tables at once, but as I had little experience in multi-tabling, I couldn't focus enough and lost about 10-15 dollars.

I wouldn't 4 table while I'm getting started, but OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

After that I tried to go up limits. I began playing $10 NL at 2 tables. This time I began to note that my concentration increased, and I began to make money, slowly but surely.

So you were under bankrolled for $5 and not making money so you went up to a higher limit? Not Good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

When I hit $75, I began to play at 3 $10 NL tables. Little later I went on to 4 tables, where I began to increase my bankrollto about $170. At that time I felt invincible.

Glad this worked out for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

But, my happy story has a twist here. I recently had a pretty bad beat, and went on tilt for 2-3 days. I lost nearly all my money. When I hit $7 I knew that things were wrong.

This is what happens when you're playing out of your bankroll. You had to loose $163 of your $170 to realize there was a problem? Not Good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

I took my last chance at a $6 SnG Multitable. I gave it my full concentration in an attempt to get the big $40 price. I finished 4th, with $10 prize. Well, at least I had a profit.

At least you're not broke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

Now I am 3 tabling in $5 NL and doing good. I feel pretty proud of myself. Does anybody have any advice or comment about this?

Why are you proud of yourself? Did you learn something from this experience that enriched your poker understanding, or are you happy that you are winning at 5NL again?

My advice? Read all of the bankroll management posts you can find.

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salempc

02-28-2006, 02:17 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 21

You are probably right. Thank you for the advice, I am currently playing $5 NL.

aokrongly

02-28-2006, 03:38 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 863

your story is so very typical it could be called the Party Poker Opera - A tale of triumph and tragedy. you got lucky on the sng's to stay on the tables. I'm not saying you didn't paly well - I don't know if you did or not. But having your last few bucks riding on a sng is a crap shoot.

anyway, what you experiencing is typical. Very very very typical. "how do I overcome it?" you don't. you have to go through a learning process. NO amount of reading will do it. You have to play the hands and that means you have to lose. It appears you don't like playing what you're bankrolled for, so at times you will lose it all. Then you'll have to buy back in.

I understand, and there's really nothing wrong with that. BR management is for when you have a BR larger than what you can fund out of your pocket. $75 isn't a bankroll for most s. It's a date night out with drinks.

When you get up to a few hundred you may want to start exercising "bankroll mgmnt" and actually move DOWN in stakes to the approriate buyin.

gl

midas06

02-28-2006, 03:54 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Yeah, don't worry about losing your initial deposit. Many new players have gone bust on the microstakes tables (and experienced players too!)

Just make sure that your second go round at it you practise good br management and try your best to keep from tilting, and you'll be fine.

spoonitnow

02-28-2006, 04:53 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

A lot to say about this one, but I'll pick my spots so as not to discourage you.

From your first post, it looks like your bankroll ended around $30-35. This will give you 6 or 7 buyins at 5nl. I don't know what stakes are available at PartyPoker because I don't play there, but assuming this is the lowest, this is the best you can do. Your goal at this point should be to carefully try to build this up. From what I got out of your post, you signed up for one of the free bankroll deals, and the $75 ($25 bonus + original $50) you started with is now halfway gone.

If you did use this free bankroll deal, it's easy not to worry about the money, because even if you lose it all, you haven't lost anything but your time. But what if instead of blowing it all playing a game where your bankroll can't handle the swings, you took it slow, built your bankroll correctly, and ended up turning that FREE $75, into a few hundred, or a few thousand dollars? Not to mention the valuable experience you would gain along the way? That would be nice, right?

The reason you shouldn't be playing these games where 1/3rd, 1/2, or even more of your bankroll is at risk at any time is because crap happens. You can flop top set on a rainbow flop with no straight draws like JJ on a J 7 2 flop, and this guy with ATo calls your all-in on the flop and makes his runner runner straight. Then what happens? Yes, you were a HUGE favorite on the flop, but you can still lose most of your money just like that. Situations like this is why bankroll management is important.

The following is a500lbgorrilla's bankroll management post, something I highly advise you to read and try to understand:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=4971

My question to you is this, why are you feeling proud? I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't, but I would like to know why.

Okay, now I'd like to address some things aokrongly said in his reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokrongly

anyway, what you experiencing is typical. Very very very typical. "how do I overcome it?" you don't. you have to go through a learning process. NO amount of reading will do it.

I strongly agree that what he is going through is typical. However, I strongly disagree that it can't be overcome. The clear answer here is bankroll management. salempc is operating on limited funds, $75 to be exact, and from the beginning of his story we saw that his BR management was lacking. This is the first step. You can learn to play poker well enough to beat 5nl and 10nl by reading the material on this website, the forums, and the hundreds or thousands of other resources online, available to anybody on the Internet. What you cannot learn by reading is the discipline to play within your means, even if it means a less exciting game. For you to learn this, you have to have the living shit kicked out of you. It seems salempc has had this happen, let's hope he learns the lesson here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokrongly

It appears you don't like playing what you're bankrolled for, so at times you will lose it all. Then you'll have to buy back in. I understand, and there's really nothing wrong with that.

This is a very irresponsible thing to say to someone who is apparently ignorant of the necessity to stay within their bankroll. I've seen you make a lot of posts that have probably helped a lot of beginning players, so surely you know better than this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokrongly

BR management is for when you have a BR larger than what you can fund out of your pocket. $75 isn't a bankroll for most. It's a date night out with drinks.

My initial reaction is that if $75 was just a night out with drinks, salempc wouldn't be using one of the free bankroll options. But this is just an educated guess, I don't know salempc, so I can't say for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aokrongly

When you get up to a few hundred you may want to start exercising "bankroll mgmnt" and actually move DOWN in stakes to the approriate buyin.

It seems that you're telling salempc it's acceptable to play outside of your bankroll, bust, reload, play outside of your bankroll, bust, reload, repeat.

What if the $75 was a stake for $5nl? Would it still be acceptable to play outside of your bankroll, bust, reload? Why treat it differently?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

midas06

02-28-2006, 04:56 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

I agree Spoon. Even if you get staked $500 for 25nl it's possible (but improbable) to bust.

Applying good bankroll management, and trying to avoid over-tilt, will decrease your risk of ruin.

aokrongly

02-28-2006, 05:15 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 863

spoon. i like your style. I like your lengthy response. i like the way you think.

However, there's no game on party that 50-75 is the appropriate br for, imo.

Fleece

02-28-2006, 05:22 AM

#9 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

spoon is right, slowly build urself up to get a bankroll.

I myself only started with$10 on stars. But by adopting a winng style of play and getting a little bit lucky, i was rolled enough for $2nl. Then by grinding it out i managed to build myself up to $200 were i was rolled enough for micro buyin tournys and sngs. I eventually built myself up over a $1000 and bingo urve got a roll with $0 of your own money invested.

My advice. Read the forums and improve ur play. STICK TO $5NL untill u got atleast $200. And learn some discipline, ive never heard of a 2-3 day tilt before....When u get badbeat remember that badbeats are what makes you money. If you never get badbeat then there would be no money in poker as you would never be infront. Many people have built br in the thousands and started from where you are. Just make sure you learn from your experiences now as it is free experience that people who start there bankrolls from deposits have to learn with there wallets.

salempc

02-28-2006, 05:32 AM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 21

thank you all for your advice, Ive been trying to re build my bankroll, just won another SnG

Its late here, tomorrow ill be playing more, I have 50 bucks already

One thing I did realise in Party Poker is that theres is no difference between $10NL and $5NL except the blinds. I mean, when people raise they will for example raise 0.20 in any of those.

Good thing to me because I am playing the same game at $5NL but with lower blinds.

Setzy

02-28-2006, 06:24 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Kentucky

Posts: 399

Remember, and don't get blindsided like I did: You only have 45 days from your first deposit to play those beginner tables ($5 and $10 NL), then $25 NL/PL is the MINIMUM stakes....just a fair word of warning.

Save your stories 'cuz they're all the same..

biondino

02-28-2006, 10:16 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

salempc, you sound like you'll be fine, but just reassure me that you ARE aware of bankroll management, and you do understand that you've got a long, sometimes painful road ahead of you where you'll run good, run bad, lose discipline, tilt, wonder what the hell you can do to make things better, suck out, be suckes out on, right? And you'll need to be mentally prepared for all of these, and able to stick to the rules, maintain the discipline that allows you to progress as a poker player.

I had one month playing £25NL where I went up 16 buyins in a couple of thousand hands, then lost 13 buyins in the next couple of thousand. I am a competent player, I didn't change my game radically, it just happened. Can you deal with that? Are you willing to? Do you understand the pressures you'll be under, and know that you'll be able to cope with them?

Good luck dude, it's a fun trip.

biondino

02-28-2006, 10:32 AM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

In case you're interested, here's my graph (it's well out of date - I'm currently on about £1200, with the trend line continuing pretty much perfectly) with the interesting, variance-induced blip I mentioned:

Pelion

02-28-2006, 01:18 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

give me that graph maker

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

swiggidy

02-28-2006, 01:53 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

give me that graph maker

Looks like Excel

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(='.'=)
(")_(")

spoonitnow

02-28-2006, 05:19 PM

#16 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by salempc

thank you all for your advice, Ive been trying to re build my bankroll, just won another SnG

Its late here, tomorrow ill be playing more, I have 50 bucks already

Stop playing the goddamn SNGs and play only 5NL.

That is all.

Rabid Dog

02-28-2006, 05:48 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 574

You could take that $50 since you've already met the raked requirment and go to pokerstars where they have 0.01/0.02 games. And then if you still insist on SnG's they have $1+0.10 sng's there.

Its been a few months since I've played at stars though, so I'm just assuming its still the same. Also I havent seen the new setup at party, but I'm again assuming 25nl and $5 sng's are the lowest they go there.

kashpot

02-28-2006, 06:40 PM

#18 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: raleigh,nc

Posts: 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Dog

You could take that $50 since you've already met the raked requirment and go to pokerstars where they have 0.01/0.02 games. And then if you still insist on SnG's they have $1+0.10 sng's there.

I am not sure, but, Pokerstars is fairly tough for a newbie. Haven't played there yet,but wouldn't Paradise be a better place for him to play with such a roll. While yes, Pokerstars does offer the .01/.02 levels. Either way, you need to see the badbeat as just one hand in a few million over you lifetime. Badbeats and variance are part of poker. As mentioned, stay away from the sng for now. Yeah, you may be a good player, but there is too much up and downs in sng. You win one and lose six and your bankroll is history.

Operation PAYDAY:
22 FEB 06 $30
current $136.00

Pelion

02-28-2006, 11:01 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Pokerstars is the place to learn. Yea its tough but thats why its a great place IMO. Once you have learnt the game at stars you will crush the competition at the same limits at other sites IMO.... and its not like stars is unbeatable. Still prefectly reasonable to grind out 20BB/100 there.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Buzz

03-01-2006, 10:27 AM

#20 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Canberra, Australia

Posts: 112

Looks ffrom your sig Pelion that your BR has taken a very positive upswing recently

I'm playing 2nl at Stars and UB, I actually found Stars easier to beat than UB initially, but after 2600 hands I'm averaging about 25bb/100 at both.

Thinking about trying 5nl when the BR gets to 20 buyins, I think only Stars offers it though.

A beginner trying hard to learn not to be a donkey They say you should keep a journal so mine's online ... read here for a laugh!

Pelion

03-01-2006, 11:09 AM

#21 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz

Looks ffrom your sig Pelion that your BR has taken a very positive upswing recently

Just a little

Im gunna play a few more 10NL hands when I hit $500 so I can be confident when i move up

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Irisheyes

03-01-2006, 01:20 PM

#22 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: over there

Posts: 3,708

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz

Looks ffrom your sig Pelion that your BR has taken a very positive upswing recently

Just a little

Im gunna play a few more 10NL hands when I hit $500 so I can be confident when i move up

25NL is where the party starts. Get ready for the fast track skywards.

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