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spoonitnow
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08-16-2007, 07:24 PM
Post subject: On Short Stacks
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I'm curious to get inside the mind of the microstakes player.
Suppose blinds are $0.25/0.50, $50 stacks except for you with $10.
You're in the SB, and it's folded to you. You have K 5 .
Which do you think is the better play, to fold, or push all-in? Why?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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pushing is marginally +EV, but you can really just make a standard raise. Shoving in this situation is great for your image, though.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
pushing is marginally +EV, but you can really just make a standard raise. Shoving in this situation is great for your image, though.
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Can you demonstrate why you think pushing is +EV?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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You're talking ring?
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Anything but pushing.
Raise if the BB is too tight and/or playing lots of tables. Check/fold most flops if he's an insufferable nit.
I've been calling these spots heads-up, although folding is probably best because unlike HU you don't have position post-flop. Also there is a case for this hand playing like crap post-flop.
This is also why I'm VERY loose when defending SB raises from terrible players.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Id need to download SNG wiz to do it properly...
but heres the maths for 10bb, 20bb would have to be worked out and I'm not that interested.
http://www.donkeydevastation.com/200...stack-play/41/
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Unibomber14
You're talking ring?
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Yes.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Anything but pushing.
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I'll go ahead and show the math since this thread isn't as popular as my other random situations.
Edit: So I totally goofed when I typed a formula into my spreadsheet earlier and typo'ed a value which totally fucked up the result. Here's the revised version.
The fastest way to figure out what range to test is to figure out what equity the BB needs to break even, and find every hand he can call with that satisfies this. As it turns out, the BB needs at least (10/20.75) or 48.19% equity on any hand he calls with to break even, and the range of hands that meets this minimum equity is 22+, A2s+, K5s+, JTs, T9s, A2o+, K5o+. (Note JTs and T9s meet the requirement, but QJs does not due to the straights that can't be made with the K we hold.) This range is 30.6% of hands, and the K5o has 33.982% equity against it.
If you do the calculation, against this optimal calling range, our push is worth -$0.38181, or almost a full big blind.
I'm not sure if any play other than a fold will have a higher EV if the BB plays optimally, but it's certainly possible. 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I think raising to 3x then either betting or check/folding most flops is ideal depending on your opponent.
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