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Bugeye
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02-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Post subject: Settle An Argument On Implied Odds
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 25
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Been arguing with a friend about an online hand he played recently that I witnessed. Here's the setup:
Friend is showing some newbies the ins-and-outs of online poker. He's cleaning up in a tight-aggressive 9-handed low stakes LIMIT cash game. He picks up TT in middle position. Unknown UTG raises. Tight UTG+1 re-raises. UTG+1 has only shown down big cards, and it looks like he's playing solid position poker.
It folds to Friend who, to my astonishment, makes the call. Flop comes rags, UTG checks, UTG+1 raises, Friend folds.
Afterward, I berate my buddy for making the preflop call. He counters that he knew he was beat preflop (we both put UTG+1 on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AK), but my friend says he was shopping for a set of tens. He says that the implied odds of getting paid off in this situation was worth making the call. I say, he was dominated preflop, so why take an 8:1 flyer, looking for the set with only two other players in the hand?
Can someone explain how (if?) the concept of implied odds works in this situation? I think this was a truly awful call, but my friend makes his living playing online poker and I don't, so I have to give him some cred.
Cheers,
-Bug
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Tell your freind he needs way more than 8:1 to make that call. As played he called 2BB so he needed at least a 30+BB pot to break even. If QQ, JJ and AK is in his range, he's not going to make that on a K or A flop. Either raise or fold.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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He made a bad call
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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frosst
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
Posts: 220
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Also, implied odds only count if you think he'll stack off with what you think he has.....in other words, if he suspects a set and can fold JJ+, you're wasting money
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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8:1 is the right odds of flopping a set but in this spot there isnt much dead money in yet, there is a chance it will be reraised again (meaning it costs us more than 2 bb to see the flop) and even if we hit our hand he might slow down. So yea its a bad call.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
8:1 is the right odds of flopping a set but in this spot there isnt much dead money in yet, there is a chance it will be reraised again (meaning it costs us more than 2 bb to see the flop) and even if we hit our hand he might slow down. So yea its a bad call.
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The odds of flopping a set are 8:1 yes, but I don't need to tell you why 8:1 is not the odds needed to call preflop.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
8:1 is the right odds of flopping a set but in this spot there isnt much dead money in yet, there is a chance it will be reraised again (meaning it costs us more than 2 bb to see the flop) and even if we hit our hand he might slow down. So yea its a bad call.
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The odds of flopping a set are 8:1 yes, but I don't need to tell you why 8:1 is not the odds needed to call preflop. |
7.5:1*
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
8:1 is the right odds of flopping a set but in this spot there isnt much dead money in yet, there is a chance it will be reraised again (meaning it costs us more than 2 bb to see the flop) and even if we hit our hand he might slow down. So yea its a bad call.
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The odds of flopping a set are 8:1 yes, but I don't need to tell you why 8:1 is not the odds needed to call preflop. |
7.5:1* |
any way it PT to check how you are running flopping sets?
Seems like I am only flopping high sets like QQ, KK and AA which sounds good but is harder to get money from people
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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setometer
It's a real thing
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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its fine when the stacks are very deep, but you didnt give that info
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jyms
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02-20-2008, 11:42 PM
Post subject: Re: Settle An Argument On Implied Odds
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#11 (permalink)
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
its fine when the stacks are very deep, but you didnt give that info
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bugeye
Friend is showing some newbies the ins-and-outs of online poker. He's cleaning up in a tight-aggressive 9-handed low stakes LIMIT cash game.
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Did you miss this gabe, or am I missing something?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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posting alot because im trying to put off some work, and of course the post i mess up on is in the beginner's circle!
bah, ignore that last one
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