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Set on the flop, do I need to raise flop?

  
 
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Vinland
Old 05-26-2009, 02:02 PM     Post subject: Set on the flop, do I need to raise flop? #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain 1 is 30/9/5 over 23 hands only.

I checked my set on the flop (prob not necessary) but I was pretty confident that Villain1 would raise it up. Villain 2 pretty well committed himself with his call and he was a fish. Given that Villain1 was the PFR, do I need to reraise to charge draws?
I wouldnt put a lot of suited cards in his range other than AK, AQ, AJ and maybe KQ since he raised it up preflop. Is it worth just calling and trying to get it in on the turn or reraise now? What do I raise to?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($5.87)
BB ($5.30)
UTG ($5.48)
Hero (UTG+1) ($11.20)
Villain (MP1) ($4.82)
MP2 ($7)
MP3 ($9.58)
CO ($8.44)
Villain 2 (Button) ($1.88)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 3, 3
1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, Villain bets $0.30, 3 folds, Villain 2 calls $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25

Flop: ($0.97) A, 3, 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $0.80, Villain 2 calls $0.80, [color=#CC3333]Hero ?
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Deuce Blue
Old 05-26-2009, 02:21 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I would raise it up to like $2.00 here and make a non club turn shove not look like that big of an overshove if they stay in. Plus it could disguise your set as a missed flush draw that you are trying to buy the pot. But I'm not much of a cash player but I want to get this isolated down to one player if I can. Keep the A-X guy in there and chase the flush draw guy out.
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Lucothefish
Old 05-26-2009, 02:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 You didn't quite edit it right, I can see what you did...

Villain 2 is in no matter what. I'd say raise to $2 too.
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Warpe
Old 05-26-2009, 02:29 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 yeah, $2.



 
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Vinland
Old 05-26-2009, 02:31 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hey Luc, I dont mean the initial check, I mean should I reraise Villains bet after I checked, or just call and try on turn to get it in?
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Lucothefish
Old 05-26-2009, 02:34 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 check raise to $2. The color tag before your last action tells me what you did.

Just to clarify, no-one said call because a club on the turn is killing the action vs villain 1, but if you raise now you'll get him too far down the rabbit hole to escape no matter what comes next. Raise your sets on Ace high flops and expect to be called by worse.
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kmind
Old 05-26-2009, 04:20 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 He can't have AcXc DUCY?

But if they'll call with worse we should raise. I'm guessing since a tighty bet into 3 people plus the fish called, you'll more than likely see at least one call to your raise.
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Vinland
Old 05-26-2009, 04:33 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 oh right duh....Maybe I should review the hand more carefully when I post my thoughts. Ac already out there....
so he almost certainly doesnt have a FD....KQ at best most likely.
So if I re-raise I am hoping that he will bring his range along...

I figured he probably had 99+, AT+, KQ+. I didnt necessarily put him on an A b/c he was cbetting into a fish who could have showed up anything. I felt he was capable of cbetting with either air or a lower PP and hope that neither of us hit an A and we would just go away.
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bigspenda73
Old 05-26-2009, 04:55 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinland
I didnt necessarily put him on an A b/c he was cbetting into a fish who could have showed up anything.
ppl really think about poker incorrectly, this is really bad logic.
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Vinland
Old 05-26-2009, 07:19 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 perhaps I didnt explain it properly......my english isnt great... can I have the password to the freeroll?

Anyway, I'll try and explain better, perhaps its still flawed but we'll see.

Villain raised PF after I limped. I put him on 99+, AT+, KQ. A player who was fishy and giving away a decent amount of cash called and I called (after my limp in).

The flop came down with an A on board. I checked b/c I felt that the Villain would bet (either for value or cbet). Villain2 called (the fish) and I was left with a decision....I didnt think the PFR had a FD. I hoped he had an A. However, just because Villain1 bet, I didnt think he neccessarily had an A. I felt he was capable of betting with an underpair and hope that the fish called preflop with his garbage and would go away.
So, I wasnt sure if I should re-raise here b/c if Villain1 had say TT, he would probably fold, where if I just called, maybe, just maybe he would bet out again.

If my thinking is still off, well thats fine....give's me more to learn. Just thought I would try to clear up what I said initially.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:47 PM #11 (permalink)  
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well if he has TT you probably won't get another bet from him at all
so just focus on stacking Ax
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Lucothefish
Old 05-27-2009, 09:45 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
well if he has TT you probably won't get another bet from him at all
so just focus on stacking Ax
Bingo.

I've said it before, when you hit a strong hand it's best to simplify a little and assume your villain has a hand that they'll call with. The times that Ax pays all the way to the river will more than compensate for the times that slowplaying squeezes an extra bet out of TT.

By the way, how much did you raise to? I assume from this post that villain 1 folded to your raise.
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Vinland
Old 05-27-2009, 01:18 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
By the way, how much did you raise to? I assume from this post that villain 1 folded to your raise.
raised to $2.50....he folded fast and other villain called off the rest of his stack...
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Lucothefish
Old 05-27-2009, 03:19 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 It's stack sizes that dictate this one. Let's have a look at the raising point:
Pot size: $2.57
Effective stacks: $3.72

Call: PS = $3.37 ES = $3.72
Minraise: PS = $5.77 ES = $2.92

We all said $2 because minraises suck, but really a minraise is as big as you need to go to make an easy turn shove, thanks to the third man helping to build the pot. HU a 3x raise is goot but keep in mind you can tone it down with extra players commited.
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