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LeFou
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11-21-2004, 05:36 PM
Post subject: Semibluff on the come
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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ToP says that a raise is the right defense against the semibluff most of the time, but that one exception is when the semibluffer is on the come.
Going by recollection only, it seems like almost half of semibluffs online are on the come.
So has the exception become the rule?
Also consider: another exception mentioned is when the pot is large enough to make a raise ineffective -- i.e. the semibluffer will not give up the pot. Especially in limit games, this seems to be the case a great many times.
This implies that passivity is not as bad as we initially thought? Discuss.
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Joke
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 131
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what do you mean by the "come"?
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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i mean 4 to a straight or flush
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kidpoker22
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: D-Town
Posts: 43
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Actually, semi-bluffing really implies that you are "on the come". The value of an actual semi-bluff is to buy yourself a free card on the turn--if you chose to take it. It also--at least in limit--helps to build a pot. By raising the cheap street you can usually double the pot size by only putting in 1 small bet.
I think what you're referring to is just a steal. When someone bets with nothing they are stealing. That's really a horse of a different color.
But, yes, the best play is to play back at a semi-bluff. It's hard to distinguish a semi-bluff from a real bet. The best advice I can offer would be to look for a smallish bet or raise from an on the come player. Many players won't make their normal bet or raise on the come becuase they are just trying to buy a "free card" and not to win the pot right there.
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KP22
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kidpoker22
Actually, semi-bluffing really implies that you are "on the come".
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This kind of makes my point -- in Hold Em the only hands that people semibluff frequently are the come hands. So that Sklanksy's "normal" defense against semi-bluffing (i.e. a raise) isn't the right play most of the time.
I see a semibluff as a stab at a pot when your hand could realistically become the best one even if called. Includes OESD/4flushes but some other hands too, e.g. overcards or small pair with a 3flush or a gutshot, etc.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kidpoker22
I think what you're referring to is just a steal. When someone bets with nothing they are stealing. That's really a horse of a different color.
But, yes, the best play is to play back at a semi-bluff.
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I think the difference is that if you read an outright steal, you can and should probably play back regardless of what cards you hold.
To playback a semibluff you need your own semibluffable hand. And if opp is on the come, it's better to call and bet out on a blank turn.
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Joke
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 131
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Ohh thx! I think the last thing you said about calling and then betting a blank works well when ur opponents bet is so big that it gives him bad odds if you call (-folding proability from you of course). But when he bets really smalish you have to re-raise him right, if your sure? But that might be the whole point your making? =)
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Why would you just call if you are sure your opponent is semibluffing, especially in NL? Come back over the top and make them lay down their draw or make a call with the odds in your favor. No matter what, if you have the best hand, you are letting their semibluff succeed if you just call their raise. Of course, it is the nature of a good semibluff that it's difficult to distinguish from a legitimate raise, so often it is the correct play to just call if you only have a suspicion.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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This is about defending against the sembluff when you don't have the best hand, but something "legitimate" -- i.e. the pot odds aren't there for something like midpair (what're you going to do, triple 'em?)
You can't be rolling over whenever there's a card higher than your pair on the board, but you also can't sacrifice your stack just to keep some dude honest.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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So a situation like this might be where the flop came TJx with two to a suit, you have TA and are raised by someone who are almost positive is semibluffing either a straight or flush draw? In this case I guess it might be best to just call, since QK or a flush draw with an over would be about even money against you, and a multidraw like QKs or Q9s would be a favorite.
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Iconoclastic
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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What if the semibluffer is acting before you instead of trying to get a free card? He'll semibluff the turn too, you won't have the chance to bet when a blank comes.
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