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flintyglint

03-11-2009, 05:31 PM Post subject: searching the forum

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 39

hi all,

i'm brand new to this online poker universe. not even playing real money yet. i feel overwhelmed by how much i have to learn, but i'm poking away at it (pardon the pun). i have a million incredibly basic questions, and have tried searching on the forum. i find the search tool unusable. i'm not getting helpful returns. i'm hoping someone can help me learn to use it. if you don't i'll just start asking my stupid questions in here

.

for instance, i watched one of the vids on here and a guy mentioned pf charts. i guessed that meant pre flop - did a search on google and found lots of them, but i'm wondering if there are charts on here that have been vetted by this community, which i trust more than random google returns, for some reason.

so....i go to "search ftr" link at the bottom of the page. then click on "searchpoker forum". in the "search for keywords" with "Search for any terms or use query as entered" checked, i enter "pf charts". i leave all other options at default, and get.....crap!

help, please...or else i will ask questions like "what are pf charts and where can i find them?", and you'll have to say rtff, and i'll say i can't rtff because the f'ing search tool doesn't work, and so on......

thanks

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lockpull

03-11-2009, 05:42 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: OVERLAND PARK, KS

Posts: 303

Welcome, I am new myself but here is my suggestion:
You found the forum but did you check the strategy section:
http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver.com/

Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling

Keith

03-11-2009, 05:59 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 1,336

also read all the posts in the digest-learning starts here stickied at the top of the begginers circle.

Taicho

03-11-2009, 06:17 PM

#4 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Bloomington, IL

Posts: 102

Like Keith said, read all of the posts in the digest. It may seem like a lot to get through, but basically someone has already done the leg work for you in getting it all organized into one post

If you find certain stuff you'd like clarified, feel free to post and ask - there are plenty of people around here willing to help you out.

As for the search function, all I can suggest is to use quotes to narrow down the results you're getting; "pf charts" (with quotes) might get you better results than a search without the quotes would. There's also a "Search" button up top, maybe that's different?

Best of luck and welcome to FTR.

flintyglint

03-11-2009, 06:30 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 39

thanks - i'm working my way through the stuff you've all pointed out. the quotes didn't provide anything better. i still think there's probably a way to use the search function better and i just don't know it....

NNNNOOObody expects the Spanish InquisishuuuNNNNN!!!

TAGurit

03-11-2009, 07:16 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 56

try posting a chart you found on google to see what people think of it here...

flintyglint

03-12-2009, 05:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 39

ok, here's a chart i found for 6 max NL:

UTG: 22+, AQo+, AJs+,

UTG-1: 22+, AJo+, ATs+, KQ, KJs

MP: 22+, ATo+, A8s+, KJo+, 9Ts+

CO: 22+, A8o+, A6s+, KTo+, K8s+. QJo+, 78s+

BTN: 22+ A6o+, Axs+, K8o+ K6s+, Q8s+, 89o+, 54s+

what do people think? and i'm not entirely sure what the "+" means.

NNNNOOObody expects the Spanish InquisishuuuNNNNN!!!

lockpull

03-12-2009, 05:30 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: OVERLAND PARK, KS

Posts: 303

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

what do people think? and i'm not entirely sure what the "+" means.

It means "or better"..... as in 22+ is any pocket pair 22-AA or KJ+=KJ,KQ etc....

As for if it's a good chart I will let the more experienced players answer that.

Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling

celtic123

03-12-2009, 05:33 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2008

Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR

Posts: 708

Hi , welcome, all your question are welcome

the plus sign (+)
22+ means a pair of 2's and better pairs. i.e. 33,44,55 etc

ATs+ means AT suited and better. i.e. AJ, AQ, AK .
See ?

flintyglint

03-12-2009, 05:55 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 39

thanks guys, that's what i thought it meant, but what about 54s on the button? does that mean only suited connectors better than 54 or would 64s be ok to raise on?

NNNNOOObody expects the Spanish InquisishuuuNNNNN!!!

ArcadianRock

03-12-2009, 07:29 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 295

Charts fine but I'm not sure if you got all the positions right. There is

SB
BB
UTG
MP
CO
Button

You could probably loosen up just a bit more once you get a hang of the game for UTG and add ATs+, but it's not so bad to go by for a beginner.

Outlaw

03-12-2009, 11:04 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

If you are new, I would suggest starting with full ring. Full ring would look something like.

UTG: QQ-AA, AK

UTG-1: JJ-AA, AK, AQs

MP1: 99-AA, AK, AQ

UMP2: 66-AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KQs

U1MP3: 22-AA, AK, AQ, AJ, ATs, KQs, KQ

CO: 22-AA, A10o+, A8s+, KTo+, K9s+. QJs+, 89s+

BTN: 22-AA A6o+, Axs+, K9o+ K6s+, Q8s+, 89o+, 54s+

BUT... since you are a new player.. you would benefit from playing..

UTG: QQ-AA, AK

UTG-1: QQ-AA, AK

MP1: JJ-AA, AK, AQs

UMP2: 1010-AA, AK, AQ

U1MP3: 66-AA, AK, AQ, AJs, KQ

CO: 22-AA, AJo+, A10s+, KQ, KJs

BTN: 22-AA, A10o+, A9s+, KJo+ K10s+, QJs, J10s

Simple rules.

1. Never limp a hand unless its a pocket pair not in your raising range and there are limpers before you act.
2. Raise 4xbig blind 1big blind per limper.
3. Continuation bet all flops with at least one face card or 3 cards 8 or under. Fold to a flop/turn reraise unless you have 2-pair or better.
4. Bet at least 60% pot on all bets.. a 50% river bet is okay sometimes.
5. Fold to a 3-bet (reraised after you raise first) unless you have KK+, AK. Shove KK+, call with AK and play aggressively if an A or K comes or you flop the nut flush draw. Try to get it all in on the flop.. but try to do it with a raise and reraise, not a shove (unless half your money is in the pot already or its the flush draw you have)
6. Call with pocket pairs as long as the raise is less than 5xbb (big blind) and either yours or the raisers stack is above 80bb. If you don't hit your set or an open ended straight draw, fold to a flop bet.
7. If its not in your button range, never call the small blind. If it folds to you in the small blind, raise your cutoff range.
8. Spend at least half of your playing time studying the game. Read/reread all of the guides on here daily. The first time you see them they will appear to be in a different language.. as you progress they will come in to focus.

I am not a full ring player... but I think by following the above advice it'll keep you out of a lot of tough spots and make decisions easier postflop. I bet I could use this chart and follow the rules to a T and run 10BB/100+ in 2NL through 10NL.

Once your postflop skills improve you will learn which hands to add to open up your range. I suggest trying this in play money first.. although no one will ever fold preflop or postflop.. even worse than 2NL

I hope this helps.. any of you good players feel free to rip me a new one if you think my advice sucks lol

O

TAGurit

03-16-2009, 08:40 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 56

i don't know if im a "good" player, but i like your advice.

Lucothefish

03-19-2009, 11:14 AM Post subject: Re: preflop hand chart for full ring NL and some basic rules

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Cretaceous Park

Posts: 701

Lucothefish will become famous soon enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

- does UTG-1 mean immediately to the left of UTG? i've seen UTG+1 mentioned somewhere else

UTG is first to act pre-flop UTG+1 and UTG-1 are the same thing: the second person to act.

Here's the 10 positions in a Full Ring (FR) game going clockwise:
Early positions: UTG, UTG1, UTG2
Middle Positions: MP1, MP2, MP3
Cutoff (just before dealer button): CO
Dealer: BTN
Small Blind: SB
Big Blind: BB

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

- i'm not clear about counting limpers when calculating the amount to raise. is that just people who have limped before you on that hand, or other players who have showed a history of limping previously at the table and are still in the hand (i.e. players who might be after you in still in the hand)?

You're going to want to start at $0.01/$0.02 (called $2NL for short). If you play limit HE then the above doesn't matter. If you want to play NL Then it's 4 Big blinds plus 1BB for every caller already in the pot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

- use the same rules for continuation bets (i.e. 4xbb at 1 bb/limper)?

No. Don't C-bet at $2NL unless you are pretty sure your opponent will fold to it. $5NL is where C-Bets start to work often enough to make them profitable. A typical C-bet size is 2/3rds of the current pot, don't do it in numbers of blinds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

- what constitutes a nut flush draw? have to hold the A & K? and "get it all in on the flop" means after the flop and before the turn?

Nut flush is Ace high flush. Get it all in on the flop means put all yourt chips in on the flop by raising and re-raising when you think you've got the best of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

- rule 7, is that assuming you are actually sitting at the button? or should you apply that range when you have the choice to call the small blind sitting in other positions too? and "if it folds to you in the small blind, raise your cutoff range"? does that mean if you're sitting in the cutoff and the small blind folds raise the hand range? can you give a specific suggestion for what to raise it to?

Ok, Let me try and explain this one.
As the starting hands chart shows, you can play a lot looser from late positions if it's folded to you. If you're in the small blind and it's folded to you, and you are holding a hand that is NOT in the late position starting hands chart, FOLD. If you are holding a SHC hand, RAISE.

I hope I explained things well enough for you.

flintyglint

03-19-2009, 12:33 PM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 39

thanks luco,

you're using different notation for early and middle positions than outlaw was using, so i'm confused now about what hands to play from there. i get the general, sure, but i'm wondering if you have some specific suggestions. or maybe your could redo outlaws chart using your notation? and what do you suggest for hands to play from sb and bb?
thanks so much

NNNNOOObody expects the Spanish InquisishuuuNNNNN!!!

Lucothefish

03-19-2009, 12:54 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Cretaceous Park

Posts: 701

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

First 3 to act - UTG to UTG+2: QQ-AA, AK
4th - MP1: JJ-AA, AK, AQs
5th - MP2: 1010-AA, AK, AQ
6th - MP3: 66-AA, AK, AQ, AJs, KQ
7th - CO: 22-AA, AJo+, A10s+, KQ, KJs
8th - BTN: 22-AA, A10o+, A9s+, KJo+ K10s+, QJs, J10s

For Blinds play as a general rule, if it's folded to you in the SB use your button range. If it's folded to you in the BB then you get the blinds.
Also, if someone before you raises and you are in the blinds, your hand needs to be strong to call the raise as you will be out of position (OOP) in future betting rounds.

Starting hands charts are great for people who are starting out. you will notice that you are folding 80% or more of your hands using this chart, that's normal so expect it.

flintyglint

03-19-2009, 01:06 PM

#17 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 39

awesome - thanks, luco

NNNNOOObody expects the Spanish InquisishuuuNNNNN!!!

Lucothefish

03-19-2009, 01:33 PM

#18 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Cretaceous Park

Posts: 701

No problem - welcome to FTR.

One further note, for now you should only call a raise with the 4 UTG hands (AA, AK, KK, QQ). You can worry about adding more to this later. The reason beginners are advised to play uber-tight is because it makes post-flop play easier.

Are you planning to play limit or no-limit? There's an article on this site that explains the real differences between the two, have a read of it and then try them both, see which you prefer.

Also, I'd stay with the play money tables until you can answer all of the following questions:

-What are pot odds
-When do you have pot odds
-What is the gap concept
-What is a marginal hand
-What is a speculative hand
-When to play suited connectors
-Why do suited aces suck (in NL anyway)

There's more I'm sure, but if you can answer all of those before you move to real money you'll already be ahead of the field. All the answers are here at FTR (read the stickies, they're golden) or on google.

Good Luck

Muzzard

03-19-2009, 03:18 PM

#19 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

Your openinig ranges in FR should look nothing like what outlaw and lucofish say. Ur ranges are far too tight, opening 14.6% on the buttun is just ridiculous.

Outlaw

03-19-2009, 03:35 PM

#20 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 1,033

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Your openinig ranges in FR should look nothing like what outlaw and lucofish say. Ur ranges are far too tight, opening 14.6% on the buttun is just ridiculous.

He is a new player at micros, nothing wrong with being tight and profitable as he learns the game and begins to open up later as his postflop skills improve. I agree those charts wouldn't be good for a seasoned player.

Lucothefish

03-19-2009, 03:41 PM

#21 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Cretaceous Park

Posts: 701

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Your openinig ranges in FR should look nothing like what outlaw and lucofish say. Ur ranges are far too tight, opening 14.6% on the buttun is just ridiculous.

Please impart your wisdom Muzzard on what a total beginner with little post-flop experience should be playing with here. It could promote some healthy discussion.

Carroters

03-19-2009, 06:22 PM

#22 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Da Amberlamps

Posts: 2,216

If I folded JJ utg I would be violently sick and wonder what was wrong with my mind.

surviva316

03-19-2009, 06:39 PM

#23 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms

Posts: 1,625

surviva316 will become famous soon enough

renton's guide on preflop hands and situations to play is GREAT. I would advise only playing the hands he outlines there if you understand WHY you CAN get +EV from playing those hands in those positions. If, for example, you think that an AJs UTG is profitable because if you hit an ace on the flop then you have a monster, then you are simply better off folding this strong hand preflop. don't play a single hand ever at all ever in your life in you don't understand why it has enough value to voluntarily participate in a pot (and the reason better be a hell of a lot better than you saw Daniel Negraneu do it in last years WSOP).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

tanglelegs

03-22-2009, 03:27 PM Post subject: questions

#24 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 25

keep the questions coming lots of good answers in these replies

stonyman

09-12-2009, 10:52 PM

#25 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Sep 2009

Posts: 27

Good stuff in here. I stumbled across this trying to verify what the '+' after rentons card notation listings was.

Robb

09-13-2009, 01:16 AM Post subject: Re: searching the forum

#26 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyglint

i find the search tool unusable. i'm not getting helpful returns. i'm hoping someone can help me learn to use it.

Bypassing the question of whether what you're searching for is a good thing (asked and answered above), here's a suggestion. Use Google's advanced search.

Put "http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2" in the "search within site or domain" field to narrow search to just FTR. This produces several happy outcomes:

1. You can easily enter several search keywords.
2. Google produces several lines of the key text of each result, usually enough to know if the post has what you're looking for.
3. You can narrow your search pretty easily using the "NOT" fields to rule out some keywords that seem to be producing irrelevant results.

You can do much the same with FTR's search tool, but it requires some more sophistication. The Google approach is much easier for most folks to use.

The other advantage you'll have after hanging out on FTR for a while is knowing the "lingo" we use, so it's easier to choose keywords that will generate the right hits.

Welcome to FTR, and good luck.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

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