Originally Posted by saranacJACK

Sorry no reads, I was multi-tabling without HUD...

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

I don't think he has a Q here, although it certainly is in his range. He's probably calling you some pair like 55-99, TT or JJ maybe and he's looking to outplay you on a later street. I double barrel here, he's folding the turn alot without a Q, even if he has a Q - he probably dumps any Q without an ace kicker to a large turn bet anyway (IF you are nitty). You can't bluff-raise the river though because you don't look like your repping a Q by checking the turn. That's my point on why I think we should double barrel. Your hand is hopeless against anything that calls so you need to either bluff or c/f. Alot of players will call you with any pocket pair on that flop, if they can fold, let's give them the option.

Originally Posted by dev

Now that you mention it, if you know your opponent is a cbetting player, this is a really good spot to c/r bluff the flop. It's a great cbetting flop, and thus a great c/ring flop against someone who bets lots of flops.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Please elaborate.

What value hands are you c/ring this flop with?

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

However, this is a flop that you aren't check/raising for value like ever really. Would you c/r 33-QQ, KQ, QJ? Therefore, when you do c/r here it's predominantly as a bluff.

Originally Posted by Dev

You could argue that the range is too much garbage and not enough nut, but I'm not so concerned with balance here. If we are worried about balance, I guess we could do the harrington thing and look at your watch so you're c/raising like 50% of hands or something.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Please elaborate.

What value hands are you c/ring this flop with?

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

def. barrel the turn

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

However, this is a flop that you aren't check/raising for value like ever really. Would you c/r 33-QQ, KQ, QJ? Therefore, when you do c/r here it's predominantly as a bluff.

Originally Posted by dev

None of your value range is likely to get paid off. If we have a Q we have to slow play it for any value here. I think it's a bit too weak to slow play. A 2 is in really good shape, but I don't think we're in there with a 2.

My point is that the c-betters range is SO weak that we're not getting value from our KQ, etc. hands anyway. So we play everything the same and take down the pot. We've likely already gotten max value from a smaller pair now our airballs have value, too.

I think I've explained my point of view to death. Tell me how you play BB's range on this flop. We're not donking anything into a guy who cbets so much, are we?

Originally Posted by dev

Stacks:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Well considering villain is opening from UTG+1, and we would be calling OOP, I was have a very tight range here. A check/raise from me on this flop could really only be repping 3 hands that I would be doing this for value (15 combos QQ+). My range for calling UTG+1's open OOP here without reads would be something like 88+, AK.

Villains range (UTG+1) would be something relatively similar like 66+, AQ+, KQ. I really don't know if I would expect UTG+1 to be cbetting this board all that often, as I would suspect that he would check back a portion of his hands that has SD value.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

So, to answer you question of how I am playing my range in this spot if I'm BB. I'm predominantly check/calling, and check/folding. I'd likely check/fold the lowest part of my range of pps, as (and this might be incorrect), I don't really care to much for taking a really passive line with a very marginal hand OOP this early in the hand. Like if I call preflop with 66, I'm check/folding it on this flop given UTG+1's range of hands is likely either ahead of me now, or has decent equity with 2 overs.

Now if this was a LP vs BB situation, then I can see merit in check/raising a wider range and doing so for thinner value. Then I could see reasons for check/raising like QJ, expecting villains to level themselves into calls with TT, JJ, QT, etc. And these are hands that if we had just check/called villain would likely pot control the turn with and check behind. Now with a checkraise, since we have a small range for doing it, he likely thinks we are bluffing more often than we are, and will call with those hands to catch our "bluff". We have gotten more value out of those hands, and he will likely still check back the turn in hopes of showing down the best hand.

Just my $0.02 cents though. This is definitely a subject I don't have tons of experience on.

Originally Posted by xX zorrito Xx

I did say I was folding to a second barrel right?!! clearly I didn't have a queen...