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Ruining implied odds

  
 
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BIGandRICH
Old 10-08-2005, 09:56 AM     Post subject: Ruining implied odds #1 (permalink)  
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We all know that we should be betting around the pot to mess up a drawing hands pot odds. But in certain situations should we be betting more to destroy implied odds aswell?

example: (for the purpose of the example all players have 200BB stacks)

I have AQo and raise to 5BB, 1 villain calls

Flop :

i bet pot (10 BB), villain calls.. pot now 30BB, and the villain and i have 185 BB stacks.. turn is blank.

now if he has a flush draw then he has decent implied odds for it. but.. if i was to rather than bet the pot here.. bet say, 1/3rd of his stack (2x pot).. then if the flush falls, even if i go broke on the hand its a winning situation because i win 1/3rd of his stack 4 times for every whole stack lost.

I think this would be particularly important at low limit games because of the ridiculously high abundance of chasers.. thoughts anyone?
villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
 
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Old 10-08-2005, 11:06 AM #2 (permalink)  
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fender55
Old 10-08-2005, 07:13 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I do this especially with people who I know will call me down with just a pot sized bet. A lot of people at lower stakes games, both on line and at b and m's just love calling pot sized bets chasing straight or flush draws, at least so far in my experience. If you feel that they would think a 2x pot bet would be a little too much to call, rather than just a pot sized bet, I think its a pretty good idea and I have seen quite a bit of success with it.

It does get expensive if they do call you and hit that magic card on the river, but as you said, this happens so infrequently compaired to how much they miss it, you can make a pretty good profit, either by making it just a little too expensive for them with this bet, or by having them played horrible strategy and paying you off out of 5 times.

I'm still learning though.
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jmontis
Old 10-08-2005, 07:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
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at low stakes, just bet big, only later on do the smarter players start to pay attention to pot odds
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 10-09-2005, 12:10 AM #5 (permalink)  
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If you put him on a flush draw, don't pay it off.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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ihategnomes
Old 10-09-2005, 03:32 PM #6 (permalink)  
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In NL impied odds can equal your entire stack, so betting 2x the pot only changes the effective odds and not the implied ones. Actually, the could even be more inclined to do so, as you have shown great strength and they probably will think that you will pay them off when you hit. Overbetting in MTT's does not indicate strength like it does in a ring game.
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fender55
Old 10-09-2005, 11:30 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Point taken and I have given this some thought. I just hate to let them chase down every single draw on the cheep.

Any other suggestions for how to make people lay down their draws, or at least pay you off pretty good for all the times they miss? Should we just stick with pot sized bets with tptk with a flush draw up there if we know he's going to call?

Upon reflection over the last couple of days I'm not really sure which is better.
Cory
 
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ihategnomes
Old 10-10-2005, 03:09 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I dont think you want people to laydown draws, you want them to call without odds and a 1/2 pot sized bet works for run of the mill flush and straight draws. What you need to learn is to be able to drop the hand when their draw comes in.
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
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fender55
Old 10-10-2005, 05:43 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I have no problem dropping tptk, or better, when the flush draw comes down, its just difficult to find a way to get them to fold that 1 out of 3 times or so that they hit.

In the last couple days of playing, since I've really been paying attention to this though, this is what I have found.

Your calling station when on a draw will always call you down if they know your betting big. Their psychology seems to be like, if I keep calling and hit, look at all the money I win! They don't think long term and don't remember all the times they got burned badly calling bets they shouldn't have.

Maybe its best not to pay them off by making larger bet sizes so they get smaller pots when their hand hits. They won't have all that money at once to boost their bank roll and make them think there the next wsop champ.

This is probably common sense and poker gospil to most of you, but like I said before, still learning and trying to find out what works and what doesn't.
Cory
 
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