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River - Thin value or check? 25NL

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caddie444

11-04-2009, 06:43 AM Post subject: River - Thin value or check? 25NL

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: constantly UTG

Posts: 712

caddie444 will become famous soon enough

Villain is a 69/16 who has no aggression but will usually call down with a hand

Preflop: he has a wide limping range even UTG so I went for an ISO play OTB.

Flop: I think I get a decent amount of folds on this flop as he rarely has a king and I can represent one. I figured I didn't need to c-bet as big because he'll just fold everything that missed. My plan was to check behind most turns if he calls since my hand does have some showdown value, and they're aren't really any good double-barreling cards.

Turn: After his flop call his range is pretty wide prob something like small pairs, flush draws, some J-x and K-x hands, Q-10, 9-10, A-8, A-10

My plan is to b/f turn for 1/2 pot. If he is drawing or has an inferior hand I want to charge him, and I figure I am crushed by his c/r'ing range.

River: I figure after he calls my turn bet his range consists of hands like J-10, 9-10, flush draws, some J-x's and K-x's (though I think I can discount K-x due to his flop line)

I am not sure if I should bet here... since I won't be getting better to fold this would be a value bet, and thinnish value betting is def a weak part of my game right now. Basically he prob snaps with like A-10 and folds all draws... not sure what he does with K-x, J-x

So, Questions:

1) Flop: I figure pre is somewhat standard, how is flop c-bet size?
2) Turn: Thought process ok?
3) check or bet obv?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($24.65)
CO ($25.25)
Hero (Button) ($25)
SB ($25)
BB ($27.50)
UTG ($14.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with

UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero bets $1.25, 2 folds, UTG calls $1

Flop: ($2.85)

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25

Turn: ($5.35)

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.50, UTG calls $2.50

River: ($10.35)

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ?

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altruist

11-04-2009, 06:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 30

depends whether he's a calling station. a lot of calling stations would call a smaller value bet on the river here with a J, K, or sometimes even just an 8.

missed flush draw, no one is calling unless they have a pair.

against someone who's not a calling station, just check. like you said, you're only going to get called by a better hand.

altruist

11-04-2009, 06:53 AM

#3 (permalink)

Two Pair

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 30

i'd say the main question is, is he a player that's likely to call with say, JT, KT, etc? if so, go for the small value bet.

If he happens to have A6+, that's a shame, but you'd get paid off enough times when he doesn't.

clvacva

11-04-2009, 07:02 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 200

If villain usually calls down with a hand then bet for value because villain has like every King and a bunch of jacks in his range.

Bet like 6ish

caddie444

11-04-2009, 07:40 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: constantly UTG

Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by altruist

i'd say the main question is, is he a player that's likely to call with say, JT, KT, etc? if so, go for the small value bet.

Not sure if he's likely to call with that, I only have like 50 hands on him...

I thought about it some more and I think I like a small v-bet like 1/4 - 1/3 pot seems good...

Quote:

Originally Posted by clvacva

If villain usually calls down with a hand then bet for value because villain has like every King and a bunch of jacks in his range.

Bet like 6ish

6ish seems like a lot for a value bet here IMO

Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)

Da GOAT

11-04-2009, 11:13 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

bet flop bigger or check and give up

i check back turn

now check river.

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

caddie444

11-04-2009, 01:22 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: constantly UTG

Posts: 712

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

i check back turn

now check river.

Please to be explaining why

Why do we check the turn when our hand has gone from one with minimal showdown value on the flop to one whose equity has dramatically increased against villains range on the turn?

Don't complain; Just work harder - Randy Pausch (The Last Lecture)

Da GOAT

11-04-2009, 01:45 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

[quote="caddie444"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

to one whose equity has dramatically increased against villains range on the turn?

I actually think this inst the case, his flop calling range has actually improved. I think most see the A as a good card for us but it isnt, im not going through each holding he has but you can piece it together.

Also a turn check by us can help pot control the pot since there is no way we can go for 3 streets of value vs our opp. yea sure guys a station but what does A5o beat that a station can call 3 streets with, pretty much nothing and to think he can call down super super light would be very assumptionisitc (did i make up a word?).

Also add in how passively he can play alot of his strong hands using this line its def best to go for 2 streets of value. so i bet flop then bet SMALL on river, reason being small is due to the times he wnt value bet a better hand than ours on river plus the fact he wont wanna fold for a small amount with even 4th pair (do not take it that my last line relates to his 3 street calling ranges).

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

spoonitnow

11-04-2009, 04:42 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,405

It's really hard to get 3 streets of value here partly because the A sets up all kind of nasty check/calls against his passive probably-having-two-pair-or-a-straight ass. I'd be inclined to bet the turn and then check the river instead of the other way around so we get value from flush draws and other random drawing shit like T9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

Da GOAT

11-04-2009, 04:45 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

wtf is up with the pics spoon?

i dont mind your line

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

spoonitnow

11-04-2009, 06:14 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

wtf is up with the pics spoon?

i dont mind your line

An experiment part of a bunch of research on the learning process by Carol Dweck showed that people better process text when it's proceeded by a picture that captures their attention. Basically it makes them focus for a moment and forget about the other 50 things they're doing. Quality over quantity, down with excessive multitasking, etc etc.

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River - Thin value or check? 25NL

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