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river play? help me put villain on a range

  
 
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eragotte
Old 01-04-2010, 09:30 PM     Post subject: river play? help me put villain on a range #1 (permalink)  
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eragotte
fyi villain is an ordinary straightforward 25nler, ive been super aggro and loose

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($25)
Hero (BB) ($60.50)
UTG ($31.20)
MP ($4)
CO ($25)
Button ($29.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, A
4 folds, SB bets $1, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2) 6, 5, A (2 players)
SB bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.50) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

River: ($9.50) J (2 players)
SB bets $5.50

Total pot: $9.50

so he prolly thinks i have shit all here, if i min-raise i think he calls with any ace (which he has a lot) he also has sets that call and flushes that reraise. the problem is if i reraise and he pushes im gonna be so tempted to caLL because my image is so bad, so should i just call to avoid trouble or is that retarded
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eragotte
Old 01-04-2010, 09:47 PM #2 (permalink)  
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eragotte
wow, different table 10 minutes later, villain is 14/10 and NOT positionally aware over 140 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($58.15)
SB ($27.50)
Hero (BB) ($56.30)
UTG ($20.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 4
1 fold, Button bets $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.10) 5, 4, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.80, Hero raises to $6.25, Button raises to $15

Total pot: $14.60

i push this 100 bbs deep but this is different...
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eragotte
Old 01-04-2010, 09:47 PM #3 (permalink)  
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eragotte
(same villain)
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JKDS
Old 01-04-2010, 10:15 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 1st hand: theres almost the same number of AK combinations as there are set combinations, and if he can also have AQ then theres about twice as much, and both of those hands pay off a bet. IMO his range has alot more Ax than just these though. In regard to flushes, he cant really have that many combinations. If we assume KsQs, QsJs, KsJs, KsTs, 8s7s, 9s8s, Ts9s, JsTs are all there, thats only 8 combinations. But they arent there all the time if hes a "typical straightforward" guy. So basically his range sucks, and ours is super strong and he calls a bunch so raise!

hand2: raise. AA-TT probably do this, so do 55 and 66, and those times he has a straight are countered by those he has a pair+straight draw / two pair.
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But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
 
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JKDS
Old 01-04-2010, 10:17 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 btw, if you respond with "he cant have AA-TT or Ax+ because blah blah blah" then im GONNA KICK YOU IN THE NUTS becasue you didnt post the reads you had.
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But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
 
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surviva316
Old 01-04-2010, 11:09 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
btw, if you respond with "he cant have AA-TT or Ax+ because blah blah blah" then im GONNA KICK YOU IN THE NUTS becasue you didnt post the reads you had.
lol, that's like my biggest BC pet peeve.

hand 1: i like a CiB here, and we can fold knowing we're NEVER good if he shoves over.

hand 2: fold PF, ez game. i guess we are deep, so if you feel like he has a strong range, and he's gonna stack off with an overpair, then it's +EV, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut if you thought that, then you would fist pump on flopping bottom set on a wet board and fist pump on getting this in on the flop. DUCY?
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I just wanted to share singing vaginas.
 
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eragotte
Old 01-04-2010, 11:52 PM #7 (permalink)  
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eragotte
What is CiB? sorry... I agree I probably should of raised and just muscled out a fold if he reraised, definitely a big call range but didn't trust my own ability to click the fold button. Maybe a hand I knew the answer too. bleh impulse control.

Quote:

hand2: raise. AA-TT probably do this, so do 55 and 66, and those times he has a straight are countered by those he has a pair+straight draw / two pair.
Do you think nitty boy (14/10 at 6max is pretty tight) does this with tt-jj? although I dont see how I can say he doesnt with QQ+ just because of how bad he thinks I am. As for raising, how big? if I shove I think he can probably get off the QQ and sometimes KK, i think he flat calls my c/r with the pair + draw, so although he may have draws/tt-jj maybe/qq-aa/maybe AK/AQ/AJ or spades or KQ and KJ less often. so if i shove he folds sometimes but against his calling range I probably have bad-ish equite against like 87/66/55/AA/some flushdraws/sometimes kk? maybe not, ill stove it

Quote:
hand 2: fold PF, ez game. i guess we are deep, so if you feel like he has a strong range, and he's gonna stack off with an overpair, then it's +EV, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut if you thought that, then you would fist pump on flopping bottom set on a wet board and fist pump on getting this in on the flop. DUCY?
i dont really agree with your logic, yes i wanna set mine for 75c to 55$ odds deep stacked against a guy who hates my guts. This said I want to be playing hands where I control the pot not where he has control and bets like hes got nothing but a set or the nizzles. set mining is obviously right in some spots and in those spots its sometimes right to fold the set you hit... no?
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eragotte
Old 01-06-2010, 01:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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eragotte
bump
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surviva316
Old 01-06-2010, 04:19 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 CiB=Click it Back=Click the raise button without adjusting the slider=Min Raise

it just seems like the best way to entice a call from AQ+ while still having next to zero risk of being bluffed off our hand

i agree that from a logical standpoint that there are spots where it was profitable to set mine preflop and yet, to be put in a spot later in the hand where we ought to fold our set; however, this isn't one of those spots. there are two reasons for this:

1) i wasn't exaggerating when i said that the only reason we should call preflop is because a) we're deep against a player b) with a strong range c) who is willing to stack off 200bb's with a strong overpair to the flop. if any of these characteristics of the spot do not apply, i personally believe that folding PF to a 4xbb open is best. the fact that you want to fold here demonstrates that characteristic c) doesn't apply (because who the poop cares whether we're deep against a strong range or not if villain is too nitty to stack off with it unimproved)

2) this is in the top teir of best flops we could possibly hope to see. we can reasonably hope that we're going to flop better than bottom set often, and the board is very wet allowing for aggression from villain with a wide range, and he's going to as willing as he ever will be here to stack off with premiums because you could be c/r'ing this flop with like 77+, all type of FD's, all type of SD's, all type of overs+BD's, etc.

so it's tough for me to believe that we can be optimistic about our implied odds preflop, yet be pessimistic about stacking off in this spot.
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eragotte
Old 01-06-2010, 05:19 PM #10 (permalink)  
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eragotte
okay thanks for elaborating on that, it makes a lot more sense now. you have convinced me lol... i guess my real problem was that i didnt consider those 3 conditions pre, my gut said fold the flop put i shoved and he called down with 55, really i just should not have been in the pot in the first place though against this guy, these small preflop mistakes keep costing me big pots lol, gotta think more pre
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