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flyingPenguin
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12-27-2006, 02:32 AM
Post subject: Reraising a larger range
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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After my recent comeback to poker I've been trying IlikeAces advice of reraising TT - AA, AQ, AK preflop. This is a big change from my previous QQ - AA only. Here is why I think reraising a bigger range can work:
1. A bigger range makes it more difficult for opponents to put you on a hand.
2. You'll hopefully get more action with AA/KK, and if not you're getting a lot of value from the other hands with folds to your c-bets.
3. It's easier to play reraised hands when you're playing them more often.
I'll try to explain 3 a bit more. When only reraising a small range there's more pressure to not lose with those hands (or that's how I feel about it), so I'm reraising enough to remove implied odds for a set. The problem is that then you get too few calls, and the better tags aren't calling unless they have one of the top hands themselves. When playing in more reraised pots there is less pressure to win each individual pot, so I can reraise a smaller amount and then play a better postflop game.
So, having said that, how does one play AQ in a reraised pot? AK I'm happy to get all in if it hits, but AQ is so easily dominated in a reraised pot. Is playing this hand post flop entirely read dependent? Should I follow the normal pot control line of bet-check/call-bet to get some value from KK and other strong, but beaten, hands?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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reraising is a really underused tactic. Most players assume you have an ultra tight range when reraising hence raising a wider range as you note means you can win more larger uncontested pots against weak/tight opponents.
I dump AKo and AQo when reraised at anything less than 200nl because reraise ranges are so tight. I may take AK to a flop, but it would have to be against a poor player.
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swiggidy
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12-27-2006, 02:44 AM
Post subject: Re: Reraising a larger range
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by flyingPenguin
When playing in more reraised pots there is less pressure to win each individual pot, so I can reraise a smaller amount and then play a better postflop game.
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So you're raising less since you're raising more often? Examples please. If you were standard raising (3betting) 3x you should still be going 3x.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by flyingPenguin
So, having said that, how does one play AQ in a reraised pot? AK I'm happy to get all in if it hits, but AQ is so easily dominated in a reraised pot. Is playing this hand post flop entirely read dependent?
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I really disagree that it's so easily dominated. Generally you will get 4bet by AA/KK. AK is a concern. However, you should not be 3betting with AQ when the villain only raises JJ+/AK. Then you would be easily dominated. So it is slightly read dependent. I would generally expect you hand to be good on any random Axx flop.
If a villain is raising 35% of his hands pre-flop you should be 3betting with more than TT+, AQ+. DUCY?
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flyingPenguin
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12-27-2006, 03:45 AM
Post subject: Re: Reraising a larger range
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#4 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by flyingPenguin
When playing in more reraised pots there is less pressure to win each individual pot, so I can reraise a smaller amount and then play a better postflop game.
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So you're raising less since you're raising more often? Examples please. If you were standard raising (3betting) 3x you should still be going 3x. |
E.g. If bb = $0.5, effective stacks = $70, opp raises to $2. Me with AA raises to $8.50 or so because I'm scared of getting setted and have trouble laying down my AA. Opp folds.
More commonly, if bb = $0.5, effective stacks = $50, opp raises to $2. Me with AA raises to $7, opp folds.
Now raising a higher range I find I'm able to do my normal 3x reraise and play it postflop more comfortably. I guess it's an attitude/patience thing.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
I really disagree that it's so easily dominated. Generally you will get 4bet by AA/KK. AK is a concern. However, you should not be 3betting with AQ when the villain only raises JJ+/AK. Then you would be easily dominated.
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Even when opps are raising JQ and other bollocks, many seem to be folding that to a reraise and only playing the premium hands. I don't see anyone with half a brain putting much into a reraised pot with AJ on an A/K/Q high flop.
When I reraise with AQ and get a call, what am I supposed to be making money from? Opps missed flop for a smaller pot. Draws and fish who call down with KQ for bigger pots. Added EV to other reraised hands due to the larger range. What else? I guess once the flop bet is called it becomes very much read dependent.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Do not go to the felt w/ AQ on a Qxx board in a rereaised pot. If you rereaise AQ, and they want to felt it on a Axx flop you are usually also toast.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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swiggidy
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12-27-2006, 05:35 AM
Post subject: Re: Reraising a larger range
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#6 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by flyingPenguin
When I reraise with AQ and get a call, what am I supposed to be making money from? Opps missed flop for a smaller pot. Draws and fish who call down with KQ for bigger pots. Added EV to other reraised hands due to the larger range. What else? I guess once the flop bet is called it becomes very much read dependent.
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Yes, when you 3bet AQ, get called, then your cbet gets called on a Axx or Qxx flop you should be concerned. If you are 3betting 4x or more pre-flop, then yes AQ will be dominated by everything that calls.
Keep in mind what you're trying to accomplish. You are raising more to chase out hands. Ok, so you chase out all the hands you beat. You want low pp to call. Maybe they call a cbet (which is a large bet now) on a Q52 or 469 flop thinking you whiffed? You are not necessarily wrong paying off a set post-flop in a re-raised pot either. It depends on how you do it and who you're doing it against.
Now, where do you make money? Everytime villain calls pre-flop then folds to a cbet. Some will do this with JQ, 97, etc. Many will do this with pp and weaker A.
It's not about stacking (because it is just one pair after the flop). It's about getting value early from your good hands especially vs villains that love to see the flop before they fold. What buy-in are you playing at anyway?
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
Do not go to the felt w/ AQ on a Qxx board in a rereaised pot. If you rereaise AQ, and they want to felt it on a Axx flop you are usually also toast.
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i think against agressive players (20-ish pfr types), this isn't true.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
Do not go to the felt w/ AQ on a Qxx board in a rereaised pot. If you rereaise AQ, and they want to felt it on a Axx flop you are usually also toast.
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i think against agressive players (20-ish pfr types), this isn't true. |
Yes I would agree Renton, but there aren't that many 20+ PFR's in FR. In fact I don't see alot of them SH either, less than 10%.
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flyingPenguin
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12-28-2006, 01:42 AM
Post subject: Re: Reraising a larger range
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#9 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
What buy-in are you playing at anyway?
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Currently $50NL at OnGame.
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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A reraised AQ hand:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...c.php?p=449296
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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to 3bet AQ, you need to be selective with WHO you 3bet. if its a maniac, 3bet away with lots of stuff. if its a rock, run like the wind.
but this advice probably goes without saying. just dont 3bet AQ because you decided you would 3bet AQ+ now. always use discretion.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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