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forkmantis
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03-10-2006, 03:58 AM
Post subject: Reorientation
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 23
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It's been a while since I've been here, or since I've played online poker. The first time around I was broke, and it took me a while to scrape together enough to make my first deposit. I dinked around with it for a while at the microlimit tables, and ended up cashing out $5 shy of where I started when my wife and I needed the money for something else. We've recently paid off my car, and things have gotten better, so I've deposited once again, and started reading through the forums once again.
This time around, I play much tighter than I did last time. I've quit trying to outsmart people, and play fairly tight. Then I stumbled upon aokrongly's 19 hands post, and eventually his performance poker post, and have tightened up my play even more based on his recommendations. I've been playing this way for about a week and a half to some success. I've doubled up a few times on sets, AA, KK, etc., but also have given a lot back in plain bad beats (full house beaten by better full house), or simply by calling 3-5xBB PF bets w/ PP that don't hit on the flop. I have noticed that when I do play a hand, I'm much more confident about it, since they typically hit or don't, making my choices much easier. I haven't played this way long enough to say that it's a good or bad way of playing, but I want to make sure I understand some of the finer points.
It seems that the basic premise of the performance poker style of play is that you're going to see lots of hands (multitabling) against lots of opponents who will call most of your bets because they don't pay attention to the fact that you hardly ever play a hand. Table selection seems to optimize this since you're looking for tables with sizeable pots and about 60% of people seeing the flop. Am I missing anything here? I'm guessing this wouldn't work nearly as well against decent players who observed the way you played. (I keep hearing about some "counter play" technique that I think applies here, but haven't stumbled upon that thread yet).
One issue I've run into is finding the right tables to play at. Where I play, it's rare for me to see more than 2 or 3 tables w/ 50-70% of the people seeing the flop. I do my best to find them and play 2-3 of them. The first few nights I'd just find some tables that matched this description, park myself there, and play my whole session at those tables. On the 3rd or 4th day of doing this, I noticed that the tables would seem pretty tight by the end of the session. Then I started periodically checking the stats on the tables I was playing, and noticed that any time I found a good one, it would typically drop down to 30-40% of people seeing the flop within an hour or two. I'm starting to suspect that this is because there are enough other people out there looking for these loose tables that by the time I've sat at one for awhile, the people who leave get replaced by smarter players looking for easier prey. So for the past day or two I've modified my strategy a bit. I now play 2-3 tables rather than 3-4, and spend more time watching tables. When I see a new table that matches the stats I'm looking for, I turn off "auto post blinds" on whichever table I'm playing that least matches the stats, and prepare to leave that table while I attempt to join the new table. Is this the right thing to do? Is it worth the effort? Is it typical to have to do this?
One final caveat, I'm playing from Mac or Linux machines, so my choice in poker sites is somewhat limited.
It feels good to be playing again, and to be much more relaxed about my bankroll. I have been growing it slowly, and am looking forward to refining my game and growing my br even more.
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Greedo017
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03-10-2006, 05:30 AM
Post subject: Re: Reorientation
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#2 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by forkmantis
It seems that the basic premise of the performance poker style of play is that you're going to see lots of hands (multitabling) against lots of opponents who will call most of your bets because they don't pay attention to the fact that you hardly ever play a hand. Table selection seems to optimize this since you're looking for tables with sizeable pots and about 60% of people seeing the flop. Am I missing anything here? I'm guessing this wouldn't work nearly as well against decent players who observed the way you played. (I keep hearing about some "counter play" technique that I think applies here, but haven't stumbled upon that thread yet).
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This is exactly right. At low levels, especially with ridiculously bad players at the table, you are able to play only the very best of hands, because whenever you play you will most likely win, and you will most likely get paid. It makes your decisions as easy as possible, and in general you win the most.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by forkmantis
I now play 2-3 tables rather than 3-4, and spend more time watching tables. When I see a new table that matches the stats I'm looking for, I turn off "auto post blinds" on whichever table I'm playing that least matches the stats, and prepare to leave that table while I attempt to join the new table. Is this the right thing to do? Is it worth the effort? Is it typical to have to do this?
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I don't know exactly what to say about that. Stay at a table as long as you're winning/comfortable. If it tightens up a little bit, that's fine. If it becomes a rock garden, move on. I'd say its fine to keep your eyes open for good tables that open up, and to switch around, but I wouldn't spend TOO much energy on it.
I forget where you said it, but you mentioned counter play.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...hlight=#125733
haven't tried it but i hear good stuff about it.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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forkmantis
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 23
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Thanks for the validation, and thanks for the link on counterplay.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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oooo....a Romero fan! Have see Sean Of The Dead as well?
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forkmantis
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 23
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
oooo....a Romero fan! Have see Sean Of The Dead as well?
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Of course. What self-respecting zombie fan could have missed out on that gem?
next time you need a break from poker, you should check out http://www.urbandead.com
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forkmantis
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03-12-2006, 10:52 PM
Post subject: Happiness Abounds
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#6 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 23
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I'm very happy that I stumbled upon the aokrongly's 19 hands post and the performance poker post.
This weekend I've come close to doubling my bankroll. I started the weekend with ~$85. Friday night I stayed up late 3 tabling, and just never seemed to get any cards. I'd get PP and call up to 3-4xBB, maybe getting a set once the whole night. I got AA, and ended up getting only the blinds. By the end of the night, after about 3 hours of work, I made $8. $7.50 was from a bonus I cleared, and only $.50 in true winnings. Yesterday and today, though, the cards started hitting a little better for me. Playing only the 19 hands, I was able to make $15 in winnings yesterday, another $15 today, and I've cleared another $7.50 in bonuses. So my new BR is $130, and I'm very pleased.
Lurking here and reading posts in the Beginners Circle has definitely been a big part of what made me successful this weekend. I appreciate the people who are willing to share their knowledge.
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kashpot
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: raleigh,nc
Posts: 45
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Welcome back,
Take a look at the post that I made on microlimit hands. You may be on to something with the observation about a table tightening up? I playe on Fortunepoker right now, its a European site and the players are crazy as they come. At the lower limits, you'll find many tables where five to seven players see the flop!! Its great when you have a hand, bad when you get sucked out on when your KK get snapped by Q3 or 9 5s. I think what happends is, quite often a few players will notice that you are playing tight and only with good cards. They themselves will begin to mirror you. They may be noobs, but they are not all stupid.
Continue to use your strategy. As AOK told me, dont worry about the bad beats. When your multitabling, you are too busy to even worry about your last move.
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