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Reasons why 2pair should beat 3 of a kind.

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RoyalStraight

07-10-2006, 10:25 PM Post subject: Reasons why 2pair should beat 3 of a kind.

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: East Rocksbury, South Dakota

Posts: 3

Throughout my poker career i have often been reminded that three of a kind beats 2pair. But why i ask you? Listed below are the reasons that i believe the rules of the game we love, and the one that i dominate at, poker, should be altered to allow 2pair to beat 3 of a kind.

1. The first and most obvious of reasons is that any given 2 pair is composed of 4 cards where the 3 of a kind is composed of only 3 cards. Therefore if we take that as 3/4=75% which we subtract from 100% and get 25%. Simply put, 2 pair is worth an average of 25% more than 3 of a kind. Therefore it should be ranked higher.

2. The win rate of 2pair over any given 20,000 hands is nearly 16.5% higher than the win rate of 3 of a kind. Far more hands are won with 2 pair than are won with 3 of a kind. If over a 200 hand session you are dealt two pair 3% of the hands and we divide this by its wins rate over 3 of a kind(16.5), we get 0.18181818>. And for the 3 of a kinds we divide the aproximately 1.5% of the time we get 3 of a kind by the same 16.5 difference we get 0.090909>. As you can clearly see, the long run overall worth of 2 pair is more than double that of 3 of a kind! We have been accepting the mathematical error of 3 of a kind beating 2pair for all these years and i am the first to discover it and do the math for myself. If this does not convince you that 2pair should beat 3 of a kind then continue reading my other reasons below.

3. If we were to play every hand to the river, (which I do not recommend but can be used as a profitable strategy in higher stakes games) we would see that we get 2pair nearly 16.5 percent more than 3 of a kind making it that much more valuable and clearly showing why it should be ranked higher than 3 of a kind.

4. This is not as much of a reason as it is making my point. Think of how much we value 3 of a kind. We like it so much we give it additional nick-names such as "trips" or "a set". Now that we all understand why 2pair should beat 3 of a kind, i would like to propose that we hand over those nick-names to 2pair. From now on when we flop 2pair we will say "o good, i flopped a set" and when you river your high-ranked 2pair you can shout out that your "trips" again denied someone with 3 of a kind of a pot.

Any comments or thoughts on my discovery or congradulatory messages are welcomed. I would like to hear your thoughts.

-RoyalStraight

-The highest hand i poker!

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mb2447

07-10-2006, 10:29 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: NYC

Posts: 122

are you high? no, seriously, are you?

AWOL.

LimpinAintEZ

07-10-2006, 10:39 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice

Posts: 591

thats pretty funny - i have to disagree, but you make some interesting arguments...not good, but interesting

this space intentionally left blank

BowlinPinTim

07-10-2006, 10:44 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: None

Posts: 50

wtf?

Reidak

07-10-2006, 10:57 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 566

I think he didnt pass the blunt at lunch, FIEND.

Full Ring Grinder.

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a500lbgorilla

07-10-2006, 11:08 PM

#6 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Warpe

07-10-2006, 11:25 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Canuckistan

Posts: 3,905

We should have a contest to identify the jokester. My money's on Lukie.

Waterdick

07-10-2006, 11:30 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 124

LOL

r u an idiot?

johnnyBuz

07-11-2006, 12:38 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Philly, Pa

Posts: 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

i agree.

Liter of cola.

IowaSkinsFan

07-11-2006, 12:48 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

the reason three of a kind is better than two pair: It's less probable. Nuff said.

Check out the new blog!!!

Vrax

07-11-2006, 02:32 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

Queen high should be the best hand.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

swiggidy

07-11-2006, 02:54 AM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

the reason three of a kind is better than two pair: It's less probable. Nuff said.

I don't know, his math is pretty convincing...

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(")_(")

jyms

07-11-2006, 02:59 AM

#13 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

Warpe has the smartest response to this I think. it's a rofliculous statement at the least but the OP could be a friggin genius.

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

BowlinPinTim

07-11-2006, 03:16 AM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: None

Posts: 50

a bit off topic but did anyone read his other post where he says, and i quote

"I chose RoyalStraoght for my name becaue it is the highest hand ranking in poker"

jyms

07-11-2006, 03:51 AM

#15 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

People???? people???? get a sense of humor..... LOOK at the thread. you don't have to be brain surgeon to know when someone is fuckin wit' ya. here's the bets.

1) Lukie... a 2:1 favorite and quite funny in his own right. And loves to be an OP
2) Po$$e$$ed a 25:1 underdog, but possible because he can be funny even without sarcasm.
3) Midas06 a 4:1 possibility if he was drinking that night.
4) Muxy a 3:1 good bet. He gets bored easy and is Canadian. We love humour.
5) BigRed 8:1 a bit of a stretch because bigred's humour is mostly poking back, not the original zings. But some of the funniest one line posts on FTR.

This is your line up, place your bets.........................................

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

BowlinPinTim

07-11-2006, 04:07 AM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: None

Posts: 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

People???? people???? get a sense of humor..... LOOK at the thread. you don't have to be brain surgeon to know when someone is fuckin wit' ya. here's the bets.

1) Lukie... a 2:1 favorite and quite funny in his own right.
2) Po$$e$$ed a 25:1 underdog, but possible because he can be funny without sarcasm.
3) Midas06 a 4:1 possibility if he was drinking.
4) Muxy a 3:1 good bet. He gets board easy and is canadian. We love humour.
5) BigRed 8:1 a bit of a stretch because bigred's humour is mostly poking back, not the original zings. But some of the funniest one line posts on FTR.

This is your line up, place your bets.........................................

Possesed, dont even know who he is but that 25 to 1 pay off would sure boost the bankroll if it was him

swiggidy

07-11-2006, 12:54 PM

#17 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

1) Lukie - would be risking mod status, even if he did it I don't think we'll find out
2) Po$$e$$ed - I would easily take 25:1 odds. He's random as hell and likes to finger the system from behind. My pick
3) Midas06 - see #1
4) Muxy - Hasn't been making crazy long posts for a long time, long shot
5) BigRed - I agree

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

jackvance

07-11-2006, 03:01 PM Post subject: Re: Reasons why 2pair should beat 3 of a kind.

#18 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalStraight

1. The first and most obvious of reasons is that any given 2 pair is composed of 4 cards where the 3 of a kind is composed of only 3 cards. Therefore if we take that as 3/4=75% which we subtract from 100% and get 25%. Simply put, 2 pair is worth an average of 25% more than 3 of a kind. Therefore it should be ranked higher.

Yes, but 4/3=133% and if we subtract 100% from that we get 33%. It is clear that this hints that 3 of a kind should be higher.

Quote:

2. The win rate of 2pair over any given 20,000 hands is nearly 16.5% higher than the win rate of 3 of a kind. Far more hands are won with 2 pair than are won with 3 of a kind. If over a 200 hand session you are dealt two pair 3% of the hands and we divide this by its wins rate over 3 of a kind(16.5), we get 0.18181818>. And for the 3 of a kinds we divide the aproximately 1.5% of the time we get 3 of a kind by the same 16.5 difference we get 0.090909>. As you can clearly see, the long run overall worth of 2 pair is more than double that of 3 of a kind! We have been accepting the mathematical error of 3 of a kind beating 2pair for all these years and i am the first to discover it and do the math for myself. If this does not convince you that 2pair should beat 3 of a kind then continue reading my other reasons below.

The 1.5% and 3% numbers are made up, making any and all conclusions futile.

Quote:

3. If we were to play every hand to the river, (which I do not recommend but can be used as a profitable strategy in higher stakes games) we would see that we get 2pair nearly 16.5 percent more than 3 of a kind making it that much more valuable and clearly showing why it should be ranked higher than 3 of a kind.

We get 1pair even more.. so 1pair should be the highest paying hand evah?

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

WhiteFingers

07-11-2006, 03:08 PM

#19 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: West Yorkshire

Posts: 44

Stupid post.

I dont think it is anyone like Muxy, Po$$ or Lukie. IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

The strong point in poker is never to lose your temper, either with those you are playing with or, more particularly, with the cards. There is no sympathy in poker. Always keep cool. If you lose your head you will lose all your chips.

jackvance

07-11-2006, 03:14 PM

#20 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteFingers

IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

I think it's abundantly clear that he isn't. If you aren't convinced by his "arguments", then read his suggestion #4..

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

bode

07-11-2006, 03:19 PM

#21 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteFingers

IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

I think it's abundantly clear that he isn't. If you aren't convinced by his "arguments", then read his suggestion #4..

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

bigred

07-11-2006, 03:26 PM

#22 (permalink)

PROFESSIONAL TROLL

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Nest of Douchebags

Posts: 2,184

Posting under alternate accounts isn't really my style. More like 1000 to 1 for me. I'd just post this under my name with a LOLOL!!!! at the end.

Good post though, I got a good laugh.

Another reason is that it's in the beginner's circle. I rarely venture out of my community forum and only do when the community forum is low on activity.

LOL OPERATIONS

jyms

07-11-2006, 03:27 PM

#23 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

The silence is defining.

This thread is in need of highjack. I have not had a losing night since purchasing PT. What autorate do you use?How do you guys feel about PAHUD vs. Gametime+? Pokerstars now has resizable tables. And downloadable themes.

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jackvance

07-11-2006, 03:50 PM

#24 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

swiggidy

07-11-2006, 04:17 PM

#25 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

n

it's too funny

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

jameseyb

07-11-2006, 04:21 PM

#26 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

I got my hopes up when I saw the possiblity of a straight v flush argument. Now I have to actually do some work! Damn you all!

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http://gunsonfilm.blogspot.com/
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BowlinPinTim

07-11-2006, 04:24 PM

#27 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: None

Posts: 50

i think this is clearly the best or the worst post ever (not that i've been here long enough for my opinion to mean much)
it's such a load of random bullshit but it made me laugh.

btw ru checkin out my kick ass avatar, ya u are

swiggidy

07-11-2006, 04:55 PM

#28 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by jameseyb

I got my hopes up when I saw the possiblity of a straight v flush argument.

This one is obvious. There are more outs for a flush than an OESD. You can't even argue against that.

That's why I only play suited cards, connected cards are -eV.

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(='.'=)
(")_(")

jackvance

07-11-2006, 04:58 PM

#29 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by jameseyb

I got my hopes up when I saw the possiblity of a straight v flush argument. Now I have to actually do some work! Damn you all!

I wanted to post about that too.. because when I started playing poker I actually thought straight>flush.. and it cost me a rather big pot to figure out it was the other way around. But I let some program simulate 250k hands and this came out:

straight flush .05%
four of a kind .17%
full house 2.53%
Flush 3%
Straight 4.6%
Three of a kind 4.85%
2p 23.67%
Pair 43.73%

So I guess they're all adequately placed in order of likelyhood.

(except high card.. it happens 17.4% so it should beat 2p!!!!)

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

BowlinPinTim

07-11-2006, 11:09 PM

#30 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: None

Posts: 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteFingers

IMHO i think the OP is probably is serious.

I think it's abundantly clear that he isn't. If you aren't convinced by his "arguments", then read his suggestion #4..

i think his suggestion #4 just backs up the fact that this is indeed the worst post ever

y/n?

I've decided no. I thought it was funny. But if this was actually a legitimate post then no doubt it would be the worst post ever

Miffed22001

07-11-2006, 11:41 PM

#31 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

i think folding should win, then lukie would be rich.

givememyleg

07-12-2006, 12:57 AM

#32 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator

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Posts: 5,040

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.

"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!

swiggidy

07-12-2006, 02:11 AM

#33 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BowlinPinTim

I've decided no. I thought it was funny. But if this was actually a legitimate post then no doubt it would be the worst post ever

Unintentional comedy is still comedy

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(")_(")

Bailey

07-12-2006, 04:04 AM

#34 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

i think the merits of straights over flushes should be discussed

Woooooooooooooow.... are you shitting me? straights aren't better then flushes? god.. I just found a leak in my game

Lukie

07-12-2006, 07:06 AM

#35 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

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funny, I was just going to start a thread like this discussing why full houses should beat 4 of a kind. You even stole my reasoning!!!

GODAMNIT SON OF A BITCH ACHACHACHACHACHACH!!! (i pity anyone who understands this)

Lukie

07-12-2006, 08:03 AM

#36 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

haha, classic

what's an OP (assuming that it isnt original poster, which wouldn't make sense in this ^^^ context.

Greedo017

07-12-2006, 09:04 AM

#37 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot

Posts: 1,461

why is an ace the highest card anyway? I've always hated that. fucking aces.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

midas06

07-12-2006, 09:07 AM

#38 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

I wouldn't type tha tmuch

givememyleg

07-12-2006, 10:00 AM

#39 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN

Posts: 5,040

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo017

why is an ace the highest card anyway? I've always hated that. fucking aces.

Pocket 1's ftw.

Greedo017

07-12-2006, 10:44 AM

#40 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot

Posts: 1,461

oh, and his location reminds me, south dakota is the worst state ever. and its not even close. make places to eat along your highways goddamnit! minnesota also! your states are gay!

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

jameseyb

07-12-2006, 12:31 PM

#41 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

Nothing like a bit of xenophobia to make the day go faster! I dislike people for things a bit more complex than just the lack of eating establishments on their road networks.

That said, i've also hated peopel for far less, and those do seem like legitimate reasons!

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a500lbgorilla

07-12-2006, 01:14 PM

#42 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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Posters who have posted under RoyalStraights current IP.

I have no idea why so freaking many have posted under this IP, it's the first time I've ever seen this.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

jyms

07-12-2006, 02:06 PM

#43 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

Somebody is either a clever soul or there is a glitch. My money is on the glitch. But I've been wrong before. Is this a situation with providers flipping IP's to different customers, if it isw it's still freaky that this many would get the same IP at one forum. same state, city, house, room???

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

a500lbgorilla