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Really stupid debate..

  
 
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Chopper
Old 11-04-2009, 10:05 PM     Post subject: Really stupid debate.. #1 (permalink)  
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But, please settle it for/with me. (I know it's not all about winrates, but they are fun to brag about.)

25NL. Please give me, today, what you consider to be a "decent," "solid," and "outstanding" winrate in ptbb/100.

My "friend" seems to think his 7 is only "meh" because "lots of regs are running over 10."

I am telling him that his 7, over 8k hands (lol), is running pretty darned hot for a guy that hasnt ever beaten 10NL for double digits.

My out-of-touch guess is that:
decent = 1-3
solid = 3-5
outstanding = 6+......especially 8+

I also tell him that anyone running a 7 for 25k hands shouldn't be playing 25NL anymore anyway. The object is to move up, not improve your winrate.

Thoughts (oh, and not "Chopper, youre a douche for asking this." That should be already understood. KThx)
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bjsaust
Old 11-04-2009, 10:11 PM #2 (permalink)  
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5ptbb/100 is good at any level. Say 8+ is crushing. Its not unusual to go 10+ for 10k hands but over much larger samples thats extreme.

[edit] and yes, very stupid debate.
Just playing to improve.
 
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Chopper
Old 11-04-2009, 10:13 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
5ptbb/100 is good at any level. Say 8+ is crushing. Its not unusual to go 10+ for 10k hands but over much larger samples thats extreme.

[edit] and yes, very stupid debate.
we know its a stupid debate, but i appreciate the answer anyway.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bjsaust
Old 11-04-2009, 10:19 PM     Post subject: Re: Really stupid debate.. #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
I also tell him that anyone running a 7 for 25k hands shouldn't be playing 25NL anymore anyway. The object is to move up, not improve your winrate.
I'm a big believer in BR being the trigger for moving up rather than winrate. Some people disagree, but I feel like if you've won enough that you've reached your moveup mark, then you're better off just making the move rather than waiting for some arbitrary winrate or hands volume.
Just playing to improve.
 
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LawDude
Old 11-04-2009, 10:26 PM     Post subject: Re: Really stupid debate.. #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
I also tell him that anyone running a 7 for 25k hands shouldn't be playing 25NL anymore anyway. The object is to move up, not improve your winrate.
I'm a big believer in BR being the trigger for moving up rather than winrate. Some people disagree, but I feel like if you've won enough that you've reached your moveup mark, then you're better off just making the move rather than waiting for some arbitrary winrate or hands volume.
Isn't it both? To move up, you have to (1) establish that you are capable of beating the lower stakes by a significant margin, thereby justifying the inference that you can win at higher stakes, and (2) have a bankroll sufficient to absorb variance or initial losses at the higher stakes?
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Chopper
Old 11-04-2009, 10:33 PM #6 (permalink)  
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dude,

you know you dont wait for a 3+ to move up in OUR games. you just move up when BR allows.

ok, this is going on too long. sorry to waste everyone's time.

mods can lock at any time. nothing will get solved here. i got my answer.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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BooG690
Old 11-04-2009, 10:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Chopper, youre a douche for asking this.

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
 
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Chopper
Old 11-04-2009, 11:13 PM #8 (permalink)  
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well played. cant believe i looked back for this. but, now i am laughing too hard to quit following this thread.

how many times can i get called a "douche" in one day? ...including the almost two times i've called myself one.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bjsaust
Old 11-04-2009, 11:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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@ LawDude, I disagree with that concept, and just think people should moveup based on BR. To get an accurate idea of your winrate at a level, you should be playing enough hands that variance plays a small part, and you should play them at the same ability level.

- Just because you beat XNL for 7ptbb/100 doesnt mean you're a 7ptbb/100 winner at that level long-term. Sticking around to play tens of thousands of hands just to get a statistically significant sample is silly, and claiming to be an Xptbb/100 winner without a statistically significant sample is also silly.

- Most microstakes players in particular (ones who are trying to learn, ie. readers of FTR) will find their game changing significantly. If someone played say 50k hands of 10nl, then not only is it likely that the last 10k hands were played differently than the first 10k hands, but I'd darn well hope they were!! People should be improving fast enough at this level that any statistically significant sample becomes irrelevant because its not at a constant ability level.


At the end of the day its more of a comfort thing than anything else. Whatever makes someone comfortable enough to move up and feel confident is what they should do because playing scared is always bad.
Just playing to improve.
 
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spoonitnow
Old 11-05-2009, 12:10 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 Your answer seems standard, OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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ponyboy
Old 11-05-2009, 12:40 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
well played. cant believe i looked back for this. but, now i am laughing too hard to quit following this thread.

how many times can i get called a "douche" in one day? ...including the almost two times i've called myself one.
Dude stay in the LHE forum with us weirdos. It's much safer there.
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Chopper
Old 11-05-2009, 01:10 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
well played. cant believe i looked back for this. but, now i am laughing too hard to quit following this thread.

how many times can i get called a "douche" in one day? ...including the almost two times i've called myself one.
Dude stay in the LHE forum with us weirdos. It's much safer there.
nah. i come out once in awhile to make sure i havent completely lost touch with the NL grinders. i used to post in here more than anywhere else. these guys are cool. they just are quicker to call you....errr, me....a douche, ldo.

bjaust, you are making some excellent points, as usual.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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