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philly and the phanatics
Old 08-29-2009, 10:23 PM     Post subject: range ? #1 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
 ok in this hand i am against an unknown, i have 11 hands with him and have no reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($0.98)
Hero (MP2) ($1.97)
CO ($5.31)
Button ($4.92)
SB ($2.37)
BB ($5.78)
UTG ($0.98)
UTG+1 ($5)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, A
3 folds, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.23) K, A, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.22, Button calls $0.22

Turn: ($0.67) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.42, Button raises to $4.60 (All-In), Hero calls $1.23 (All-In)

River: ($3.97) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $3.97 | Rake: $0.15


i am calling 1.23 t0 win 2.74, so i need 32%equity to make this a call.

The range i originally gave this guy: KK+,44,AJs+,A4s,AJo+,A4o
gives mes 25% equity and makes it a clear fold,

but if i increase his range to: KK+,44,A9s+,A4s,ATo+,A4o, i have my 32% equity and can at least break even making this call

so i guess either way it is a fold really, but my real question is, at 2nl is the second range an alright range to give someone at this spot who is 40/0 over 11 hands even though its a microscopic sample size :-/
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bigspenda73
Old 08-29-2009, 11:38 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 it's close with your ranges, I'd discount AA/KK/A4/44 a fair amount because of PF and flop/turn play. AA/KK bound to 3bet PF, a4 folds a high % of the time and might raise the flop but would probably just flat the turn had they called the flop, 44 probably raises the flop and if they don't, like A4, probably just call the turn.

Range is probably like AT-AK, semi-bluff hearts
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jyms
Old 08-30-2009, 12:38 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 This is micro stakes and a 4 is very much still in the range, they only know how to slow play big hands, and a stack a donk is usually tilted towards monsters, or sometimes TP when they think your full of shit. Monsters is subject to the players opinion though and he know thinks he has a monster with any A making 2 pr and a K high kicker
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philly and the phanatics
Old 08-30-2009, 02:12 AM #4 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
it's close with your ranges, I'd discount AA/KK/A4/44 a fair amount because of PF and flop/turn play. AA/KK bound to 3bet PF, a4 folds a high % of the time and might raise the flop but would probably just flat the turn had they called the flop, 44 probably raises the flop and if they don't, like A4, probably just call the turn.

Range is probably like AT-AK, semi-bluff hearts
there are players who will def call with a4s "with position" pretty much all the time, and i agree about them probably just calling the turn if they did that on the river.

He ended up having kk. And a lot of people i have seen at this limit like to just smooth call aa, or kk (as annoying as that is). So i am def keeping this in future rando's ranges until i see them 3betting it
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nish81
Old 08-30-2009, 10:01 AM #5 (permalink)  
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You know what, a few people might disagree here, but at 2nl i've seen such a wide variety of idiotic play that without some semi-decent stats/reads its hard to formulate any kind of working range. I've seen people open limp AA, and people shove ai with A5o pf. By the turn, 2nl villains could easily have K4 or Q4 or maybe J4.

In conclusion, I dont really know what to do. I hate playing pots, especially OOP, against 2nl villains who i have no reads on. Maybe thats why im such a nit, because it's hard to put 2nl unknowns on ranges imo - and with the large amount of 2nl players, you get a lot of 2nl unknowns.
<JustinSKS> Tha'ts why I fold my 33 to 72o, because 7 high beats, 1 pair, donk.

JR: lets do it JUAN
JR: mono e mono
JR: man to man
JR: HU4ROLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Dealer: juan0984 folds
 
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Belt
Old 09-04-2009, 02:38 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
there are players who will def call with a4s "with position" pretty much all the time
I def. agree with that but in this hand there is no A4s in the deck by the turn...
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philly and the phanatics
Old 09-04-2009, 05:50 PM #7 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
 yea i feel that, but pokerstove adjusts for negligence like this
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spoonitnow
Old 09-04-2009, 06:59 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nish81
You know what, a few people might disagree here, but at 2nl i've seen such a wide variety of idiotic play that without some semi-decent stats/reads its hard to formulate any kind of working range.
Off topic but related to what we talked about earlier today on AIM: is this a manifestation of your anxiety (about being wrong about your opponent's range)?

Moreover, I'll show you some ways to adjust for this in IRC later. Damn time zone bs. At least when you're in the UK you'll only be +5 from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belt
I def. agree with that but in this hand there is no A4s in the deck by the turn...
I like this guy and I hope he'll come to IRC (there's a sticky in the community forum about how to get there).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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nish81
Old 09-04-2009, 07:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by nish81
You know what, a few people might disagree here, but at 2nl i've seen such a wide variety of idiotic play that without some semi-decent stats/reads its hard to formulate any kind of working range.
Off topic but related to what we talked about earlier today on AIM: is this a manifestation of your anxiety (about being wrong about your opponent's range)?
not a manifestation of my anxiety, but it's a product of the general incorrect thought processes that led to anxiety and make me feel anxious, thought processes which have been ingrained in my subconscious (and take a while to reverse).

Quote:
Moreover, I'll show you some ways to adjust for this in IRC later. Damn time zone bs. At least when you're in the UK you'll only be +5 from me.
word
<JustinSKS> Tha'ts why I fold my 33 to 72o, because 7 high beats, 1 pair, donk.

JR: lets do it JUAN
JR: mono e mono
JR: man to man
JR: HU4ROLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Dealer: juan0984 folds
 
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