Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

raising with small pairs 22-66 preflop?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
noble007
Old 08-03-2006, 12:51 PM     Post subject: raising with small pairs 22-66 preflop? #1 (permalink)  
noble007's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 531
noble007
When I first started playing holdem I would fold these small pairs to most raises pre-flop, then I changed (After reading AOK's strategy guide on this site) to "mostly" calling up to 4bb pre-flop in the hopes of hitting a set on the flop & winning a big pot or folding if I didn't hit on the flop.
I have since been reading a strategy book by Phil Hellmuth which advocates raising & re-raising with these small pairs pre-flop & then C bet on the flop whether you hit a set or not. (The idea being you can win a lot more pots this way than the 1 in 8 when you go set hunting & you will get paid of even bigger when you do.)
I was just wondering if anyone on FTR uses a similar strategy & whether it is more profitable, or also even if you don't use it, do you have any input as to why it would be a bad idea & finally also would it be suited to looser or tighter tables thanks.
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
bode
Old 08-03-2006, 01:06 PM #2 (permalink)  
bode's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
bode is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via Skype™ to bode
 l like to limp these and only call a raise if the effective stacks are deep enough.
Quote:
eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
Reply With Quote
flotu
Old 08-03-2006, 02:35 PM #3 (permalink)  
flotu's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 304
flotu
I raise small pairs in 6-handed NL cash games. Mainly to get more value out of my sets and to be able to pick up the pot on the flop unimproved.
Reply With Quote
Warpe
Old 08-03-2006, 03:05 PM     Post subject: Re: raising with small pairs 22-66 preflop? #4 (permalink)  
Warpe's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
Warpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by noble007
I have since been reading a strategy book by Phil Hellmuth which advocates raising & re-raising with these small pairs pre-flop & then C bet on the flop whether you hit a set or not. (The idea being you can win a lot more pots this way than the 1 in 8 when you go set hunting & you will get paid of even bigger when you do.)

I was just wondering if anyone on FTR uses a similar strategy & whether it is more profitable, or also even if you don't use it, do you have any input as to why it would be a bad idea & finally also would it be suited to looser or tighter tables thanks.
Renton advocates doing this and it has a lot of merit. It expands your preflop raising range greatly, making it hard to put you on a hand and increasing the likelihood you'll get action on your big ones. I'm not so sure about the reraising part though.

Essentially, it opens up opportunities for you to take down small pots preflop or on the flop when you miss as well as buying you extra cards to hit your 2 outer. What you have to be careful about though is c-betting into calling stations (don't), which is why, imo, it's more effective on a tight table than a loose one. You can end up check/folding the turn from EP in a lot of pots you've raised and c-bet if you're getting called all the time, so table conditions are important and you have to pick your spots for firing second barrels carefully. That doesn't mean you shouldn't still raise preflop though. You're still building pots for when you hit.

If you want to try it out, start doing it in position. Example (which frankly could be done with any two):

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $62.37
UTG+1: $100
UTG+2: $131.25
MP1: $105.80
MP2: $208.56
MP3: $12.05
CO: $102.30
hero: $96.65
SB: $170.02
BB: $75.24

Pre-flop: (10 players) hero is Button with 4 4
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, hero raises to $4, 3 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Flop: 6 8 5 ($11.5, 2 players)
MP1 bets $1, hero raises to $6, MP1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $5 returned to hero.

The jury is out for me as to whether it pays for itself per se, but I have to think that the action I get on my nut hands wouldn't be as much if I was put on a tighter preflop raising range. I also don't do it all of the time. Limping them part of the time helps to mix things up too.



 
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-03-2006, 03:39 PM #5 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 Moved from Small Stakes LHE


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
Miffed22001
Old 08-03-2006, 03:40 PM #6 (permalink)  
Miffed22001's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
Miffed22001 is on a distinguished road
 i raise when im fist into the pot, if i was playing <100nl i would just limp.
Reply With Quote
Renton
Old 08-03-2006, 03:49 PM #7 (permalink)  
Renton's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
Renton will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
i raise when im fist into the pot, if i was playing <100nl i would just limp.
Those are my sentiments.


Original poster: Don't read Hellmuth's book. Its not good. The only books an NLHE'er needs are

Theory of Poker
Super System
NLHE: Theory and Practice
Pot Limit and No Limit Poker
Harrington on Holdem Vol 1 (and 2 if you are really into tournaments, 3 not so much)
Reply With Quote
Lukie
Old 08-03-2006, 03:59 PM #8 (permalink)  
Lukie's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
Lukie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Original poster: Don't read Hellmuth's book. Its not good. The only books an NLHE'er needs are

---
fyp

Yes, raise small pairs preflop whenever the situation allows for it (ie, most of the time).
Reply With Quote
Renton
Old 08-03-2006, 04:01 PM #9 (permalink)  
Renton's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
Renton will become famous soon enough
 true there really isn't a book to teach you NL.

Its such a complex game to be so simple.
Reply With Quote
Miffed22001
Old 08-03-2006, 04:46 PM #10 (permalink)  
Miffed22001's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
Miffed22001 is on a distinguished road
 ToP for me, but then i play lhe too which improved my NL game no ends
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:37 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.