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raising preflop?

  
 
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Shark Bait
Old 04-03-2005, 10:48 AM     Post subject: raising preflop? #1 (permalink)  
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OK I feel like I should post this here since I still consider myself a beginner. I've noticed on most occasions that I raise preflop with great hole cards like what this site refers to as group 0-2 I tend to lose. Sometimes I was last to act and I could have just called and seen a crappy flop and considered getting rid of the hand without losing what I raised.

I guess what I'm saying is that I should be ready to call any (limit) or most (NL) raises with these hands, but I feel like I shouldn't be the one raising. I know the point of raising is mostly to get people out of the hand (especially preflop) but from my small limit holdem experience, this doesn't make people fold, it just makes me lose more.

So, considering this, should I even be raising preflop? Now I can see a point to this if I was early position as people are more likely to fold when they have to call 2 bets all at once instead of calling once and then calling a raise. But once people have already put something in, calling another bet is almost automatic in limit holdem.

So in summary, is the preflop raise worth it? especially in limit holdem? wouldn't the payoff be better if I:
1. just called preflop
2. fold the crappy flops (except high pocket pairs)
3. If I actually get some cards on the flop, I could get some big bet callers on the turn/river, which would make up for not raising preflop.
<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
 
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SavX
Old 04-03-2005, 02:46 PM #2 (permalink)  

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In the long run.. If you raise pre-flop with good hands, everytime you hit the flop it will make up, or even inprove the amount you used raising pre-flop and missing the flop..

so I'd say raise pre-flop.
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rob6597
Old 04-03-2005, 03:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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You're not necessarily just raising in order to get people to fold. You're getting more money into the pot with what is most likely the best hand, which will make you money in the long run. Whether you want people to fold or not depends on a lot of factors. In small stakes limit, if you raise in late position, almost anyone who's already limped in is going to call the raise anyway. That doesn't you mean you shouldn't "raise for value", though.
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Shark Bait
Old 04-03-2005, 04:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Part of the reason I ask this is because I was playing with a friend recently and he limped into hands with his small stack and I would raise preflop with an awesome hand, and then he would fold. Later he made the comment that I lost every one of those hands that I raised preflop, and he was right.

As far as pot building, I would tend to think that might be better saved for the big bets, when I know I have a hand, since they are usually twice as much. But people are more likely to fold here, so it's difficult to say.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 04-03-2005, 05:00 PM #5 (permalink)  
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limp with AK and hit your ace.

Lose to 73o's two pair.

limp with AQ and again hit your ace.

Lose to J9o's straight.

You raise to thin the field and put money in while you're ahead.

The logic that you're using can be described as "weak/tight"

And weak/tighties are a punchline in the poker community.

Don't be a weak/tightie. Be the aggressor. Bet when you miss becuase chances are, they missed too.

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You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Shark Bait
Old 04-04-2005, 01:22 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the words of advice. I'll be sure to post the next time I win a big pot when I preflop raise.

btw, the perry bible fellowship is amazing.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 04-04-2005, 01:42 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait
btw, the perry bible fellowship is amazing.
I usually run Calvin and Hobbes on the weekdays and Saturday.

Also, could you please edit your signature. We don't allow soliciting here.

-'rilla

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Fnord
Old 04-04-2005, 01:53 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Most of my money playing NLHE is made when I raise pre-flop then bet out on the flop and no one calls. I try to pick up as much loose change as I can and sometimes manage to pick up 50BB without showing down a hand!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Shark Bait
Old 04-04-2005, 02:18 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Also, could you please edit your signature. We don't allow soliciting here.

-'rilla
Well, since you asked so nicely...

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Shark Bait
Old 04-04-2005, 02:33 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Most of my money playing NLHE is made when I raise pre-flop then bet out on the flop and no one calls. I try to pick up as much loose change as I can and sometimes manage to pick up 50BB without showing down a hand!
I will certainly agree that it can be a great strategy in no limit, but according to this site (and I tend to agree) I don't have the BR for most NL games and the local "B&M" card room only does limit anyway.

So I think for now, I should be focusing on limit games. So like I said, I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out.

It's kind of funny....when I first started playing I hated limit because no one ever folds. So I went to NL games and did ok for a while (luck) and then promptly lost it all. So now I'm starting over, hopefully doing a little better this time. This site has made me realize that with my BR I need to stick to the micro limits, and most of all, that I have a lot to learn.

I'd also like to thank the people on this site, especially the people that have helped me. As always, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I do believe I have been playing much better as a result of coming here.
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Fnord
Old 04-04-2005, 03:22 AM #11 (permalink)  
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In limit raise to:

o Get value, push edges when you have the best hand
o Build pots with suited broadways and med pocket pairs (late position)
o Buy the button with a strong hand (seat selection helps!)
o Reduce the field

...and when you move up...
o Steal the blinds (bigger stakes)
o Isolate a limper with a strong heads-up holding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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