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BILLABONG
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01-17-2005, 09:14 PM
Post subject: RAISING DEUCES THOUGH JACKS?please help
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 102
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Ok, this is a question for no limit ring. I never EVER raised 22-JJ pre flop before.But I got to thinkin about it. My image is SUPER-tight-passive at tables seeing 14-15% flops. Normallt I limp in with 22-JJ to see if I can hit a set or flop top pair (which 56% of the time doesnt happen because even if im holding JJ a card higher then a jack appears on flop 56% of the time) or im out of the pot, simple as that. But I got to thinking, since my image is so tight. I was wondering if I could use it to my advantage by raising with any pocket pair even 22, as long as 1:everyone folds or limps before me ( no raises) and 2: as long as no more then two players call me, 3: im in latest position to the players that called my preflop raise, 4:they check to me, I can semi/bluff because agaisnt no more then two players in the pot with me all im going to need to win that pot is 33% of the time to stay equal money. And with two other players in the pot with me that right there says I have generally a 33% chance of taking down that pot 2/3=33%. So ill not only be winning 33% more of the time,but the pots I win with will be bigger pots due to my raising preflop...Does this theoy make sense or am I missing something or forgetting about something?
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BILLABONG
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 102
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I forgot to add the major fact im only betting half the pot which means betting $5 into a $10 pot I only need to be correct in taking down the pot 33% of time to stay equal money
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{This post has been removed}
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Limping with TT and JJ is weak. Raise with them and follow through post flop.
You'd be suprised what happens when you preraise and someone else hits TPTK on a 9 high flop.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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If you're playing at a small site with regular players raise 75% of the time and call the other 25% of the time.
Depending on the nature of the game they need to be played diff.
If most pots are heads up and always raised pf, raise down to JJ - 88/99 3-5BBs and bet the 3/4s to full pot on the flop, whether overs hit or not, the less cards in the playing zone the better, if they are all in the zone i.e. Hole cards 99 Flop AKT bet 1/3. The trickest part about these hands is knowing when to fold them after the flop.
If the game is loose with lots of callers and Raise more with JJ/TT if you're not heads up on the flop with overs.
You could try to bring this into your game gradually by opening with JJ/TT and calling with the others...
Theres more on this subject to learn do a search there should be some Jems lying around on the subject...
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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Waggho
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 260
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Also consider this: say you have 33 in late position. you raise and people will put you on a good or great hand. The flop is A 3 T. Then maybe Mr. A9 is scared of betting since Mr Tight (you) raised preflop and he may check/fold. Limping preflop is saying "I have a hand worth playing, not more" and that hand in this situation becomes a monster with the 3 on board, which your opponents know nothing about. Preflop raising on the other hand says "I have some high cards here, stay away!" and a flop with high cards makes others more cautious (not to mention Mr Loose who limps T3o but now folds). The power of small sets is that Mr two pair, Mr. TPTK and even Mr. TPGK all think they have you beaten and won´t fold to a raise. If your in late position this is great, since someone probably has bet and the other two have called, you´re raise will most certain be at least called and WHOOPS! you´ve got them pot commited to the level that someone is probably AI before the river falls.
I don´t know if this makes raising 22-JJ unworthy, but it´s something to consider.
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
The other day I played in the ring on Stars and after an hour and a half I had seen 72% of flops
$100.00 buy in...left the table with $360.00
loosen up man !!
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You're a bad, bad person. 
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
The other day I played in the ring on Stars and after an hour and a half I had seen 72% of flops
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personally I find 72% to be way too tight, I try and hit at least 85-90%
- sed
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
The other day I played in the ring on Stars and after an hour and a half I had seen 72% of flops
$100.00 buy in...left the table with $360.00
loosen up man !!
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That approach is best reserved for people that are really good at post-flop play... REALLY good.
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TopThis
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 34
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As always, it depends on your position but I personally try to limp with 22-77. I will raise in late position if I think I can get the blinds or only be up against 1 weak player to the flop.
I have noticed a lot of players like to overbet middle pocket pairs, 88-JJ, preflop. On one hand it's good because with hands like that you want to isolate 1 opponent with overcards. Most of the time they won't hit on the flop so you can go ahead and take down the pot right there. You'll also have a good idea of when they do hit so you can get out of the hand.
However, overbetting with hands like that telegraphs exactly what kind of cards you're holding. A wise opponent will take advantage of that.
I think your strategy is ok. Limping in early/middle position and putting in the first raise in late position.
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Jesse K
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 31
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I always throw a raise with Jacks.. the idea is to get people who hold A or K with a low kicker to fold and eliminate the possibility of them catching their overcard.
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