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thepokervirgin
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11-29-2007, 02:10 PM
Post subject: Raising b/f you see any cards...wtf?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5
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I was playing a game at my buddies place when one of his co-workers decides to raise before the cards were dealt (I'm pretty sure he said this was called straddling or something).
Do any pros actually do this or is this move reserved for hacks?
It seems like a pretty stupid play to me.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
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See any High Stakes Poker episode
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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It's a bad play in a vacuum but it does increase the action. A straddle is not as dumb as a raise in-the-dark before the flop, which can be any amount and does not give the bettor any opportunity to raise his bet.
Straddle = 2x the big blind on UTG. Double straddle = 4x the big blind on UTG+1, after UTG has straddled. On my idiot table it has gone as far as a quintuple (2^5 or 32xBB) straddle. To be funny I guess.
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
It's a bad play in a vacuum but it does increase the action. A straddle is not as dumb as a raise in-the-dark before the flop, which can be any amount and does not give the bettor any opportunity to raise his bet.
Straddle = 2x the big blind on UTG. Double straddle = 4x the big blind on UTG+1, after UTG has straddled. On my idiot table it has gone as far as a quintuple (2^5 or 32xBB) straddle. To be funny I guess.
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I've been to casino games where it's not unusual for the re-straddling to keep going until they hit £128 at a £2 BB table. That's 7 straddles! I wish I had the bankroll to continue playing there. 
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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I freaking love straddles in any live game (when someone else does it, that is). Only once I've played at a casino where people have straddled both UTG and UTG+1, and I wish I could see it again. Creates absolutely amazing action. Only thing that sucks is when you've got to raise to 15bb with your AKo PF and you still get 2 calls and you completely miss the flop ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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There are a number of reasons to do this. The most common is to encourage action. Many people will play much more loosely in straddled pots (which is to some extent correct). Thus gamblers like it. So do tight players who end up with a hand that time!
Another is, quite simply, to get more money into the pot. If you have a significant edge on the table, you want that money in the pot, because you can outplay them for a bigger pot further in the hand. Two hands as example:
1 - no straddle: 2 limpers to Cutoff, who raises 5bb. Folds back to limper #2, who calls. Pot is now .5bb (SB) + 1bb (BB) +1bb (folding limper) + 6bb (calling limper) + 6bb (player) = 14.5bb. The flop comes, limper check/calls the 10bb cbet. Pot is now 34.5bb. Then limper folds to the turn bet. CU made 18.5bb (minus rake).
2 - with straddle: 2 limpers to Cutoff, who raises 10bb. Folds back to limper #2, who calls. Pot is now .5bb (SB) + 1bb (BB) +2bb (UTG/str)+2bb (folding limper) + 12bb (calling limper) + 12bb (player) = 29.5bb. The flop comes, limper check/calls the 25bb cbet. Pot is now 79.5bb. Then limper folds to the turn bet. CU made 42.5bb (minus rake).
If you can get everyone to do this, it should increase your profits significantly, assuming your edge is there. Even if only the UTG/str player does it, if that player has enough of an edge, this could pay off.
Finally, many people play at stakes that make them comfortable. If, however, you force them to play higher stakes, they are going to be less comfortable. That ultimately means they are likely to play less optimally, which ultimately means more profit for you.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Nice post, Jeffrey.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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