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FaceLoran
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12-24-2005, 11:10 AM
Post subject: Raise or not preflop?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10
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Ah my first time asking a question myself after reading through dozens of questions you guys have posted. I finally got stuck in a situation where I don't know if I made the right play or not.
Anyways it's a single table tournament down to 3 people and the blinds are really really high, but I have the other two players covered. Small blind has a respectable stack and big blind has a very small stack like 2 more big blinds. I caught KK on the button (obviously). Small blind was a very aggressive and fairly loose player but usually doesnt call raises with garbage and I wanted some action outta this hand so I just called the blinds. SB called and BB checked. BB is very weak, passive style player but loose preflop calls often and drew out like 5x on all ins to make to the end.
Flop 233 rainbow they checked it to me and I decided to take it down before any aces came out for free and bet pretty strong, more than enough to put BB all in and about a third of SB's stack. Well SB pushed back all in and BB folded. I had him covered by alot and I had a strong hand, although I was well aware that he could hold anything since I hadn't raised it preflop. I called and he turned 26. I showed the Kings and he unfortunately drew out as one of his 2 outs hit on the river. I took a big hit and eventually lost all in with KJ when he held AK and a K flopped.
All that and I just want to know....was it proper for me to just call the blinds in this situation? My opponent told me he thought I was just trying to push everyone out with an Ace high. He said that he figured I wasnt very strong since that was such a weak flop and I would have raised preflop if I had something very strong. Obviously I would have won a small pot with a preflop raise since they both probably had garbage.
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THaC
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carey, Ohio
Posts: 389
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Winning the blinds is better than losing anything. I'd raise and steal..
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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It works both ways here.
Imo if you have them both covered and can take a hit, i'd try for the trap play here too.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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At the end of a tournament id probably trap this too unless the blinds were reallly big. Theres a good chance hes pushing back at you with the 2 or any overpair or maybe even just high cards if he thinks you are bullying. NH and unlucky for the bad beat
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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raise to 3x.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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If raising to 3x commits you, and your opponents are aware, just push.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Also he had 5 outs, not 2, if that helps. But I think you did fine.
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FaceLoran
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10
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For more info the blinds were 2k and 4k and the stacks were about me with 45k, SB with 20k, and BB with 8k.
3x the big blind would basically put anyone but me all in pot-committed. I figured unless they had something very strong like a strong Ace they would fold if I raised. If SB had something good I knew he'd push back all in or else he'd fold.
His only outs were the two last deuces. A 6 wouldn't have helped him since I already had 2 pair.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
Also he had 5 outs, not 2, if that helps. But I think you did fine.
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no
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FaceLoran
For more info the blinds were 2k and 4k and the stacks were about me with 45k, SB with 20k, and BB with 8k.
3x the big blind would basically put anyone but me all in pot-committed. I figured unless they had something very strong like a strong Ace they would fold if I raised. If SB had something good I knew he'd push back all in or else he'd fold.
His only outs were the two last deuces. A 6 wouldn't have helped him since I already had 2 pair.
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I like a push here.
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Telepath
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
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You're missing the point.
You are questioning a play which achieved the perfect result. You managed to get a guy all in with a pair of deuces against KK.
T.
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No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FaceLoran
For more info the blinds were 2k and 4k and the stacks were about me with 45k, SB with 20k, and BB with 8k.
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Yea i trap and hope someone hits something. If an A comes then i am very careful and will assume im behind unless proven otherswise. If im left with an overpair im going to play for stacks with the BB and see what happens with the SB.
edit: UNLESS youve been bullying alot and stealing and you are hoping someone will play back at you with 2 good cards e.g. 88, QT, A6 etc. Then you should probably just raise.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Small 2xBB or 3xBB raise is good here. You don't want 2 garbage hands to see the flop at anytime.
I do like slowplaying here though, and you did play this hand perfectly against these two opponents. If he hadn't have gotten lucky by hitting one of his 5 outs, you would have taken down the tournament. Well played, bad luck.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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littlewashu
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12-29-2005, 03:53 PM
Post subject: raise or not
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#14 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: pittsburgh,pa
Posts: 104
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I think that if youre the chip leader by as much as you say there is absolutley nothing wrong with being a bully in this case. If he called me with on a draw like that id have put him all in. odds are youll win the hand when he doesnt make his draw
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