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Poker Forum |
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| pokerroomace |
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I'm 18 years old. I've been playing poker since March 2006. I started at the lowest stakes ($25 or $10 games). I now play $600NL and have also had a go at $1kNL and made a small profit at it. My bankroll is $29k. I don't play tournaments a lot anymore. But I do quite well at offline tournaments. I'm a religious Jew and I'm at Yeshiva (a place where you learn about Judaism) for a year. I did well in school and I should be able to get a good job after I finish Uni. I'm going to a top English Uni to study Maths next year. My financial situation is good. I think I could make a lot of money playing poker in a short period of time. I'm thinking about quitting poker. Living a life of gambling can be very dangerous. I don't want to still be a poker player when I get married and have kids. If I don't stop now I'm not sure I'll ever be to stop. It could ruin my life even though I do consider myself to be a sensible player (and not a gambling player like Matusow or Hansen or Tony G etc. that will and have gone bankrupt). Playing poker for a living is not the most honest way of making money. I don't know who I'm playing with on the net and I could be ruining people's lives. Poker is considered the dust of stealing in Judaism. It isn't considered stealing but it is frowned upon. The people I take money off are expecting to win and they don't hand over fully heartedly when they lose. Especially when they get bad beat! In Judaism you are not allowed to be a witness in a Jewish court if gambling is your only profession. So again, it is frowned upon. As a poker player I'm not helping the world. I'm a leech/parasite on society. Also, I think I overvalue money and society does too. I'm not imposing this on anyone else and Judaism doesn't say non-Jews can't play poker. Poker players are my heroes. Brian Townsend is my role model. I love the game of poker, but I'm being convinced to stop playing. The reasons I want to continue are because the big amounts of money I could win and because I love playing the game and want to be the best. Please give an argument against this and why I should or shouldn't continue playing. Thanks |
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http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL. 
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting! | |||||
| Warpe |
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http://www.barrygreenstein.com/ Quote:
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| Pelion |
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Quote:
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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| grnydrowave2 |
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You're letting a belief system control your life. That's cool and everything if you feel that it's worth the tradeoff. If being a good Jew gives you satisfaction and a sense of direction, then by all means quit playing poker. Whatever you decide, make sure you do it for the right reasons. If you just want to quit because it's making you feel guilty, you should examine who or what is exerting those pressures on you. If, on the other hand, being able to dedicate yourself to Judaism completely would bring you joy, that's an excellent reason to quit. I guess what I'm trying to say is, do whatever makes you happy. That's not a decision anyone can make for you. Though I suspect that you don't really believe the parasite/stealing arguments against poker (otherwise you never would have played this long) and are looking for reassurance in the form of counter-arguments. If so, I'm sure you will receive plenty of it. Good luck. |
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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| Pelion |
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| grnydrowave2... you really dont get religion do you. If you upset God you go to hell. Its nothing to do with bringing you joy while you are alive. | ||||
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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| grnydrowave2 |
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I would be overjoyed if I believed with any certainty that I would not be burning in hell for eternity. 
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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| jyms |
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| Hell sucks, I hear the internet connection always drops and All the porn links freeze right at the nape of the neck so you never see a booby | ||||
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| Warpe |
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Gentlemen: OP made a serious post asking for some serious advice. Please don't turn this into a retarded nobody wins religious discussion. 
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| Pelion |
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Quote:
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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| jyms |
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| Not to mention if you put the serious back into a religion post we know where it ends up. One or two posts are probably enough. I think anymore starts a debate. | ||||
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| Miffed22001 |
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| follow your heart. | ||||
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| Pelion |
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| Im interested in what has made you start thinking like this? It seems pretty sudden since you obviously enjoy poker and have just made a thread about buying a new laptop specifically for poker. Whats changed? | ||||
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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| euphoricism |
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Quote:
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<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
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| VicVega |
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May the article by David Sklansky on the Two Plus Two Internet Magazine, Vol. 3, No. 9, "POKER IT'S GOOD FOR YOU" can help you I can't post the link, (not enough messages), but it's easy to found |
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| euphoricism |
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Thanks Vega, here's the link. http://twoplustwo.com/magazine/curre...maker0907.html |
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<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
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| Jack Sawyer |
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Quote:
...and do good |
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
 Quote:
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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| SteveO |
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Did you ever consider playing as a hobby? You sound as if your decision is go pro or quit cold turkey. That does not make any sense. Certainly I would recommend strongly against being a poker "pro" and committing your life and future success on poker but it is fun, challenging and profitable on a part-time basis. I never understand the "go pro" mentality. Play for fun and if you make money all the better. Working usually sucks no matter what you do because you have to do it. I like golf and fishing and poker but would never want to be a pro at any of those activities. |
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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| Ash256 |
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"As a poker player I'm not helping the world. I'm a leech/parasite on society. " IMO when you're doing shitty low-paid menial labour society is a leech/parasite on you. I personally don't think you should give up poker. If it's your passion, do it. Can you name me some honest ways of making a living that you're interested in? If you feel you're doing nothing for society, make a standing order to some charities or do some voluntary work for a cause you really support. |
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| pokerroomace |
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thanks a lot for all the replies. a lot of the replies have been very informative. i'm happy that i didn't offend anyone by writing this post. i'm going to read the greenstein and sklansky articles. they both happen to be Jews - although not at all religious. Judaism doesn't say that poker is straight out wrong. Stealing and murder are WRONG. Poker is more of a grey area. You can gamble but it's not the most honest way of life. I've always had a thought at the back of my mind thinking that poker isn't the best of things to do. There's a reason for gamblers anonymous. Gambling can ruin people's life! I don't want it to ruin mine. I was about to get a laptop, but then I started thinking a lot more if I really want to. And if I really wanna continue with poker. I'll still continue to play with friends in the future. But that will be for between $10 and $100. That's nothing compared to $1kNL. The question was more: should i quit online poker? one of the main reasons i play online poker is for the money. i do enjoy it too, but without the money involved i would have stopped playing by now or have played a lot less. also, in response to what jobs do help the world?: that's a very good point. i've also started thinking about this. my plan a week ago was: go uni to study maths for 4yrs. get a good degree and then get a wellpaid job at a bank. and you're right, this job wouldn't help the world at all. i think i need to find a balance between money and religion. i also think i overvalue (and the society we live in) overvalues money. there are good Jews making millions each year. they do good stuff in their spare time and give a lot to charity. i want to be that guy. i'm gunna think about this more. thanks for all the replies so far and please add more. ps - barry greenstein is a king for giving his tourny winnings to charity. and brian townsend is the sort of poker player i would want to be like. BT said he was enjoying life even after he lost $3mil in like a month. absolute legend. i think losing 3mil would have caused a lot of people to have a mental breakdown, but he took it like a man. |
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http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.
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| pokerroomace |
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http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.
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| Jibalob |
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I'm not very clued up on Judaism (Is that the correct term?) or anything but have views on subjects like this changed within the Jewish community in recent years (ie, are these outdated views/standards) or would it still be frowned upon? I know this post doesnt help too much but I'm curious. For example, with Christianity gambling is historically frowned upon but I think being a poker-pro would be alot more acceptable these days. I suppose it doesnt matter too much either way as it sounds like you have your own moral views on poker regardless of what your religion says about it. I dont know if its just me but MTTs seem more morally sound than cash ring games, there is an entry fee and a prize (or prizes) just like any other competition (eg professional sports tournaments - there is usually an entry fee and a prize or prizes for the top finisher(s)). I doubt many religions frown upon professional sports as a means of income. just my $0.02 |
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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| biondino |
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This is tricky. Religious pressures are one thing, but I'll wager that playing poker isn't quite such a "grey area" - find a friendly rabbi who will help you put it in perspective, because I'm sure there's a more black/white answer than the one you're giving here. It's clear your religion is more important to you - if it decrees you should quit, then you must quit. There can't be any other answer. Do you also really think gambling is dishonest? Unless you are a crook, or are dealing with crooks, it strikes me that gambling is actually EXTREMELY honest - the rules, the odds, everything is set in stone, you understand the risks. Do you mean it's dishonest because lying in betting form is an intrinsic part of the game? I fear there are very, very few professions where 100% honesty will give you the best results. Think of following the rules as being "honest", and then your quandary should disappear. Do you think you have a gambling problem? First off, you have a problem that earns you money, so that particular issue, as long as it continues, can be discounted. far more important is the question that all of us have to ask ourselves - does our poker habit negatively impact on our lives? If the answer to this is yes, then by all means make efforts to remedy it - this is common sense, it's not connected to your beliefs. You say you don't want to play poker when you get married and have kids. Have you asked yourself why? My reading of this sentence is that your prospective wife, her family, and your mutual society will disapprove. And that is a big deal, if it turns out to be the case. But perhaps she won't - if you are a poker player when she meets you, then she may learn to love that part of you as well (my gf disapproves of my poker, but it was something I picked up after we'd been together over two years and were living together - a very different circumstance. Nevertheless, we have reached a happy balance). Perhaps you could think of it the same way a smoker thinks of pregnancy - I know I will have to give up then, and I will be mentally prepared to do so, but until it happens I will continue to enjoy it. So, to conclude - there are a number of issues here, some connected to religion, some to your own worries and some to the (projected) worries of others. I think your own apparently fundamental disapproval will eventually make your mind up for you, but you can make a plan of action - let's say you decide to keep playing for now to build a nest egg to spend on the house you and this future family of yours will come to inhabit. Morally I think that sounds about as acceptable as could be! And if you are prepared for the fact that at some point you will probably have to quit, then you should be able to when that time comes - you've been playing a while now, you're unlikely to become *more* addicted if you continue. I applaud you for thinking about all this and taking the issues so seriously. I know it won't be easy to come to a conclusion that satisfied every factor, but I'm sure you will come to one. |
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| Ash256 |
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Quote:
http://www.barrygreenstein.com/contact/ |
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| Warpe |
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| I think Barry is such a class act that he would definitely respond. | ||||
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| topsoyale |
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If you personally feel that playing poker of any sort, whether it be for a living, a side income or a pure hobby is a bad thing, then your only option is to quit. The problem is that you're the only person who is able to answer this question truthfully. If others have imposed this view on you then you may have to question it, but no one here can really add anything. Try and work out if you can play as a hobby with side income and be happy at the same time with having a good job and helping people / not being a leech as you put it. Most of us here would not look down on a pro poker player but in the real world it is often frowned upon and your particular religion may be even more strict and a harsher critic. |
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| Jibalob |
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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| biondino |
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Pasty, overweight, smelly, right wing, badly dressed loners - certainly my role models (or so you'd think, looking at me, sigh)
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| spoonitnow |
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I think if you really believed gambling was going to ruin your life then you wouldn't be playing as high as you are successfully. P.S. I'm not trying to shit on anybody's religion but I personally find it funny that you can't be a witness in Jewish court if you're strictly a poker player. |
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| BennyLaRue |
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Is it really frowned upon by everyone? The link below suggests some support for players from the Jewish community. http://www.ajlmagazine.com/content/0...r-sidebar.html |
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| Warpe |
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| n find Benny | ||||
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| jyms |
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| pankfish |
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I'm not religious, but I can relate with your problem. I don't like playing ring games because I don't like taking people's money. I don't know who they are, if they are drunk, if they have a kid who is going to go hungry because I broke his aces... When I play sng's and mtt's however, I don't really feel like I'm taking anyones money. Everyone is simply paying a price to play a game, and the winner of the game gets a cash prize. yaaaay! Just the way I look at it though. |
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| Nexter |
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I feel no remorse at all when I take someones money. I get a feeling of accomplishment when I win a nice pot. Is that bad? After reading this post I thought it would be nice and feel good to give 10-20% of my winnings to a charity. I will strongly consider doing this once I move up to higher stakes. Perhaps FTR could nominate a charity through paypal and set up a script to show monthly donation amounts. That would be nice. |
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| acesfullokings |
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I started a new job so don't play much ATM, just FTP mini grind
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| Jibalob |
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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| Nexter |
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| bjsaust |
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Maybe read through this post, its not entirely applicable, but somewhat: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...hlight=#531163 Quote:
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Just playing to improve.
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| acesfullokings |
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Quote:
For the OP, mate this is a really personal decision and I can only say really is go talk to your rabbi perhaps? I mean if you like poker but think you shouldn't play that's a really tough decision I guess. Does it make you feel guilty, or are you worried about your soul? I hope you find the answers you are looking for and make a decision that you are happy with. All the best. |
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I started a new job so don't play much ATM, just FTP mini grind
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| VicVega |
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What's the difference within a professional chess player that pay fees in every tournament he plays, and a professional poker player that also pay fees on sngs? I don't think neither it's an unfair way to make money for a living |
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| pokerroomace |
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i think i will end up quitting in the end. i'm talking to rabbis about it, but wanted to post the other side of the story. gambling is not outright forbidden in Judaism. religious Rabbi's allow it, but my situation is quite different as i'm playing for quite a lot more money than they expect and i have bigger plans for it for the future. it's ok to play with friends for $10 or $20 but playing for $1000 is very different. none of the jewish pros are religious. they don't keep any laws. they don't keep shabbat or keep kosher. i can't justify playing because they do. i give 10% of my winnings to charity anyway (annually- not after every session obviously). but even if i gave 50% my rabbi's wouldn't be happy. i love the game of poker. i don't feel bad taking players money on the net (i can't even see them). i realize the ups and downs of poker. but other's don't and it can ruin their lives. if i was non-Jewish I would definitely carry on playing without a doubt. every girl i speak 2 says i should stop. every guy i talk 2 says i should carry on (because they know the game and love money). lol |
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http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.
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| Jibalob |
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| How about just playing the odd MTT like I suggested instead of high-stakes cash. Surely MTTs are more acceptable due to the "competition" with "prizes" type structure? | ||||
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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| martindcx1e |
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Poker is not gambling like roulette or craps. It's not like you are putting thousands on the line at the slot machines. You have a lot more control over the outcome. Poker is kind of similar to stock investing (except the money you make doesn't come from the person sitting next to you). Also, why does the amount of money have anything to do with it in your case? You are a responsible player with an adequate bankroll. You aren't flipping a coin on the family nest or anything. Yes, $600 or $1000 seems like a lot to lose to non-poker players (and those who don't play just cannot understand/comprehend it), but you and everyone else here knows that it's not a big deal with the right frame of mind and responsible bankroll management. Another thing...I disagree with the whole leech/parasite thing. Working a "normal" job isn't helping the world/society anymore than your poker playing is. What would happen if you inherited a billion dollars or something and didn't have to work anymore? Would you feel guilty for the rest of your life? |
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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| Miffed22001 |
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I have to be very careful what i say in this thread to not offend. My opinion is that if you enjoy something, or if something is likely to be beneficial to you and your chance of having a good life or improving its quality then you have to seriously consider which belief systme has more impact on you and then why. My short arguement would be that if something is done by persons in leisure time and that you happen to be good at that then that is not something to be persecuted about because it is a talent you have. The same would apply if you were awesome at tennis or something. The only problems that gambling causes is that it people can be come adiccted but that is not your problem and there is nothing you can do whether you play or not, that will still happen. Al |
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| pokerroomace |
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i finished in the middle of my last post. i was guna say pple hoo play poker n understand want me2continue. pple thta hav never playedwant me 2stop. main reasons to stop r: i need 2 stop at sum point coz otherwise icantmarry a nice religious Jewish girl. n wen i take money off pple i cood b ruining their lives. btw, i am addicted n that's y i'm finding it hard 2 stop. |
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http://pokerlife.wordpress.com/
18 years old. short-handed $600NL.
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| biondino |
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| Dude you'd better be careful - txt speak is explicitly outlawed in the Torah. Your rabbi would be so disappointed. | ||||
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| BennyLaRue |
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Quote:
Do what you want, follow your heart, all that stuff. Over the long term, poker is a skill based game. If you've been granted that skill and can be a positive person and role-model for others, I don't see why you aren't contributing to society any less than 99.99999% of the world. I will also say that asking advice on a poker forum about if you should quit poker isn't going to get you the most objective viewpoint. 
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| Pelion |
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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| BennyLaRue |
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| pgil |
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| plus poker players spend money on consumer goods like everyone else, and so are just as useful to society as anyone with extra money to spend. | ||||
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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| Jack Sawyer |
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Quote:
Ok, here goes Anyone who tells you how you should live your life is not a good person imo. If people put "requirements" as to how you should live in order for them to be happy with you, be near you etc., they can all go up a tree, said nicely. Oh, and don't talk (about this) to these people anymore. Whatever you do for a living is not their business. Poker is wealth redistribution. You don't ruin anybody's life, unless they are gambling addicts (who feel rushes by gambling) in which case their lives are already ruined. You aren't killing anybody. You are just playing a sport, in which the main weapon happens to be a stack of chips in front of you. Also, you don't *have* to marry a nice Jewish girl, you know. There are many other nice girls of many other and different ethnicities you can choose from. Be happy with whatever you do. But not doing something you love because "others" tell you its bad, etc. is plain dumb. You'll feel miserable for the rest of your life. I know. |
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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 |
| Latest Poker News | |
| KoRnholio |
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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| According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... | |
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