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wonderland

04-01-2009, 08:55 PM Post subject: quick hand review please

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Nottingham, UK

Posts: 478

Just wondering what you put this guy on, a narrow range if poss:

$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG nunodorey ($4.25)
UTG+1 Hero ($4.97)
CO Jimmy Runner ($12.28)
BTN Nunda ($5.58)
SB fodiati82 ($4.57)
BB costelpok ($2.25)

Pre-flop: ($0.07, 6 players) Hero is UTG+1

1 fold, Hero raises to $0.20, Jimmy Runner calls $0.20, 1 fold, fodiati82 calls $0.18, 1 fold

Flop:

($0.65, 3 players)
fodiati82 checks, Hero checks, Jimmy Runner checks

Turn:

($0.65, 3 players)
fodiati82 checks, Hero bets $0.30, Jimmy Runner calls $0.30, fodiati82 folds

River:

($1.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, Jimmy Runner calls $0.75

[Results Hidden]

I checked through to find out where i stood after the flop. Then went for it.

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St8ofN8

04-01-2009, 09:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 60

Cbet the flop. Turn seems standard, I'm betting a $1 on the river.

BooG690

04-01-2009, 09:22 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 1,439

A9?

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.

wonderland

04-01-2009, 09:30 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Nottingham, UK

Posts: 478

I totally put him on A9 there too.

I do feel checking that flop OOP was ok because if called i'd have no idea where to stand.

dtamburin

04-01-2009, 11:09 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: New York

Posts: 65

I agree with how you played and would of done the same sort of reasoning. Check the flop to see where I stood, etc, etc...

Ragnar4

04-02-2009, 12:43 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

I have a hard time not wanting to bet there. There are very few kings in his range that just call there assuming he's a semi decent player.

Without stats, I can only say that KQ, 88, TT a9 and perhaps a really passively played K9 make sense.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

kmind

04-02-2009, 02:20 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

I'd cbet still but if not I definitely bet river stronger.

wonderland

04-02-2009, 07:35 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Nottingham, UK

Posts: 478

cool, TT i'd also have put him on.

So... he had KJo.

Which, when he turned over i was rather shocked a) that he'd call a 4x raise with KJo and b) that he'd fuckin check it.

So i guess i wanted to know if the reason i tripped up a bit in this hand was because of his weird play?

surviva316

04-02-2009, 01:09 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms

Posts: 1,625

surviva316 will become famous soon enough

without any information on an opponent at 5NL he could have ANYTHING. i'm talkin' he could turn over A6s here and i wouldn't be surprised (i've seen crazier).
i'm also cbetting the flop and shutting down if i get called (especially by the person in position), unless an ace comes on the turn. i don't like check/betting less than half the pot because it's so weak and because the board is so dry i'm instantly putting you on a middle or split pair and doing a cheap raise (it's nice to only have to raise the pot on a bluff). this may only sound like a thinking man's move but you'd be surprised how many micro players make this play also

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

BooG690

04-02-2009, 01:29 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 1,439

I think that if you cbet the flop...you would have a better idea of what he had. If he only had midpair, he may have folded. If he called, he probably would have checked the turn.

Therefore, by cbetting, you may have him call (or reraise in which you would fold) and check the turn to see his action (little information is gained from us betting and him simply calling). A bet from him would be a fold. He may even check the turn (to keep the pot small) and give you a free card (damn, a jack would have been NICE in this situation). Remember that players love those KQ/KJ/QJ hands (though they really do suck) and will be calling them preflop (especially at the stakes we play).

The only reason I put him on A9 was because I was able to see the entire hand at once. There was no cbet so we are missing some information that we could have gained from doing so. The hand would have played out differently and I'm 100% sure that a player of your magnitude would have been able to put him on KQ (KJ being less likely since you have two).

And remember, you only have a pair of jacks. Here's a situation where we want to keep the pot as small as possible.

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.

Illfavor

04-02-2009, 04:01 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2008

Location: Denton, TX

Posts: 1,152

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderland

I do feel checking that flop OOP was ok because if called i'd have no idea where to stand.

You stand on the ground. Now, if you were wondering how your range relates to your opponents, that's a different story entirely. Make ranges, then adjust them based on your opponents actions. Opponents steal when they're last to act all the time, so him betting doesn't really tell you anything. You betting, on the other hand, provides better information imo.

Ich grolle nicht...

Erpel

04-02-2009, 04:28 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

It's tempting to focus on the opponents range of hands and try to adjust and exploit and all those good things - but sometimes our opponents are erratic and bad and it's hard to make that kind of analysis. Sometimes it's a fun and useful exercise to step back from level 1 thinking to level 0 thinking and try to assess as best we can if we are playing our hand correctly.

In the spirit of this idea, try this little exercise on for size. Instead of saying I have JJ and I need to put my opponent on a range say instead: I am now going to list all of the hands that I will take this exact set of actions with and then I'll assess how that range performs against what I discover is KJ.

Then discuss whether your range for taking the actions you took is profitable against KJ. Beware, there are many false conclusions possible here so don't trust epiphanies that go too much against what you would expect to be true.

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