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questoin about AK outta position

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PapalRage

05-09-2007, 06:30 PM Post subject: questoin about AK outta position

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Notre Dame

Posts: 309

Full Tilt Poker Game #2386880260: Table Tule Springs - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:19:35 ET - 2007/05/09
Seat 1: mstephans ($24.90)
Seat 2: Mister Rubbers ($22.05)
Seat 3: ruasss ($34.10)
Seat 4: BS Manta ($48.25)
Seat 5: PapalRage ($37.25)
Seat 6: Ridge_F ($9.75)
Seat 7: ForceMeat ($24.30)
Seat 8: Drops1988 ($13.90)
Seat 9: GodfatherAA ($24.65)
BS Manta posts the small blind of $0.10
PapalRage posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PapalRage [Ac Kd]
Ridge_F folds
ForceMeat folds
Drops1988 folds
GodfatherAA folds
mstephans raises to $0.75
Mister Rubbers calls $0.75
ruasss folds
BS Manta folds
PapalRage calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [5d 2c As]
PapalRage checks
mstephans checks
Mister Rubbers bets $2
PapalRage calls $2
mstephans raises to $5.85
Mister Rubbers folds
PapalRage calls $3.85
*** TURN *** [5d 2c As] [3c]
PapalRage checks
mstephans has 15 seconds left to act
mstephans checks
*** RIVER *** [5d 2c As 3c] [5s]
ForceMeat adds $0.70
PapalRage bets $5
mstephans calls $5
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PapalRage shows [Ac Kd] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
mstephans mucks
PapalRage wins the pot ($24.75) with two pair, Aces and Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $26.05 | Rake $1.30
Board: [5d 2c As 3c 5s]
Seat 1: mstephans mucked [Jc Ah] - two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 2: Mister Rubbers folded on the Flop
Seat 3: ruasss (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: BS Manta (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: PapalRage (big blind) showed [Ac Kd] and won ($24.75) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 6: Ridge_F didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: ForceMeat didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Drops1988 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: GodfatherAA didn't bet (folded)

my read on the player was that he wasnt that good, i didnt want to reraise pre because i didnt think i could get him to fold on the flop with a c bet. this play turned out fine because he ended up being a bozo who way overvalued top pair, but would you guys normally just call in this situation with AK pre?

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JJDAMAN

05-09-2007, 06:46 PM

#2 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: UVIC

Posts: 106

Ace King is a very strong hand that is always worthy of a reraise, so yes reraising is standard here.

Chopper

05-10-2007, 02:44 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i disagree, depending on the level. you can very easily overplay AKo. oop, a call aint too bad against known callers. if you hit the flop...license to kill. if you miss you can control the pot, and not feel obligated to pound away into some donkey hand.

AK is strong...when it hits. when it misses...its a wet paper bag. too many take it too far past a missed flop...at lower levels.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

q49z321

05-10-2007, 03:45 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Kansas

Posts: 26

reraise pf, don't worry about the effects of c-betting until you see the flop. but a pf reraise definitely sets you up better for a c-bet if you miss. if the guy can't figure out where the fold button is, wait for a good spot & take all his monies.

have you ever drunk bailey's from a shoe?

Hal

05-10-2007, 03:47 AM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2007

Location: ACT, Australia

Posts: 38

PokerStars Game #9834940767: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05)

Table 'Trinculo IV' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: PT's daddy ($5.71 in chips)
Seat 2: PagrusRod ($2.83 in chips)
Seat 5: BishopGoSu ($8.53 in chips)
Seat 7: CoinJock ($7.56 in chips)
Seat 8: Hal 8001 ($12.97 in chips)
Seat 9: OneOfaKind_2 ($5.46 in chips)
CoinJock: posts small blind $0.02
Hal 8001: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hal 8001 [Ks As]
OneOfaKind_2: folds
PT's daddy: raises $0.10 to $0.15
PagrusRod: calls $0.15
BishopGoSu: raises $0.30 to $0.45
CoinJock: folds
Hal 8001: folds
PT's daddy: calls $0.30
PagrusRod: calls $0.30

I've got the big stack at this table - but it's my first time @ these blinds.. BishopGoSu had been playing fairly tight and this is prob the biggest raise I've seen preflop @ this table, let alone from him.. Should this have been a call with AKs even though I'm OOP?

q49z321

05-10-2007, 04:16 AM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Kansas

Posts: 26

hal,
w/ a raise, call, and reraise in front of you, this sucks a bit more than papalrage's hand. esp when the reraiser is tight, he's probably got something pretty good. i don't think a fold here is out of line.

have you ever drunk bailey's from a shoe?

Chopper

05-10-2007, 05:26 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by q49z321

true, but what about a 8 T 3 rainbow board? i dont see cbets working here much at low stakes. i see KQ call here (which is good, but not the intent), and i see A8s call here, too (which is bad). the calling ranges at lower stakes is way too wide, to both pfr's and cbets, to slap a general tag on the move.

study your opponent and cbet the ones less likely to call you with a missed AK.

btw, if you only call a raise with AK, you can be more aggro post flop. with the 8 T 3 board, a called raise and a bet on the flop looks like a set or TPGK. on a A 8 3 sooooted flop, it looks like TP, draw, or set. lots more power in calling the raise than 3betting, imo.

fyi, at lower stakes, my AK's were my big losers. i stopped 3betting them, but did not stop cbetting them (or leading oop on various flops), and now they are among my bigger winners.

and, yes, i've read the books. i know its not the "correct" way to play AK preflop, but i will tell you from experience, it is a different game down here in the trenches. no fold em hold em requires you to play starting hands a tad differently. now, AKs is a different story. its worth 3betting more often than not, but you have to be able to let it go on the flop, too.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

q49z321

05-10-2007, 02:43 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Kansas

Posts: 26

there are so many different variables to consider, it's hard to say: "This is how to play AK OOP." but in general, from the blinds, with a single raise (and maybe a caller or two but no reraises) i 3-bet. first in, UTG or EP, i bet 3-4x BB and probably do whatever seems best if i'm reraised. on the flop, c-bet more often than not to keep the pressure on them. if your c-bet is called or raised on a missed flop, well shit, i guess you'd have to be done with the hand w/o improvements. but i still c-bet it, and i still raise pf, AK is a strong hand that i don't like to play passively.

flat calling a raise from the blinds and leading into the original pf raiser on the flop isn't a line i would use, i hate playing OOP anyway, and without the preflop initiative, i probably wouldn't open the second round of betting. if i flop a monster, i probably c/r the original raiser, if i miss, then it's INCREDIBLY hard to win a pot without having raised pf by leading the flop oop.

that's how i see it anyway, but, chopper, if that line is what's making the most money for you, then by all means use it. agree to disagree on "How to play AK OOP?"

have you ever drunk bailey's from a shoe?

Chopper

05-10-2007, 05:23 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i wouldnt say "agree to disagree" just yet. but i appreciate the fact you dont get pissed about criticism. we are all trying to get better around here, and when i respond to someone, i try to get them talking back. that way, the others that read the posts, but dont care to get involved learn something more than an "xyz" post.

i will say this, too. i like to lead into the pfr'r with AK oop when i flat called the raise. it's still cheap, and i can fold if he plays back at me. if i hit a monster, sometimes i check/call. rarely do i check/raise on a flop. it screams monster hand, and often times will fold off the opponent. i like to use that on a scary (paired) board or a 3-sooter, as a semi-bluff. i still have to have hit something, i dont like to bluff with complete air, no matter the circumstances at lower stakes...very -EV.

times i will c/r, are when i hit a set/flush, and opponents are calling a big flop bet cold, then, if i have some kind of position as it relates to the betting order, i will prolly pop it good...knowing i will take someone with me.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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