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scarface_0001
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09-15-2010, 06:10 PM
Post subject: question from "Theory of Poker"
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#1 (permalink)
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One Pair
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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This paragraph is from Sklansky's Theory of Poker. page 191, chapter 20
"In fact, given two games-one with otherwise poor players who bluff approximately correctly and another with solid players who do not bluff- you do better to play in the solid game. When I started playing draw poker for a living in Gardena, California, I intuitively suspected I was better off playing in games with the typically tight Gardena players than in the looser games with players who played too many hands. I realize now what the difference was. The tight players never bluffed, which was profitable for me, whereas in the looser games players were bluffing more or less correctly-and that hurt me."
Is this the reason I have a higher winrate on Party Poker and on Pokerstars than on sites with many more fish but who are usually aggressive players like Ongame, 888 network or Entraction?
I play NL short-handed games.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Playing at a table full of straightforward nitty villains allows you to play perfectly against them whereas the play vs bluffy players will leave some guesswork and put you in more tough spots. As for your question, I can't really say since I have no idea of how many hands we're talking about on each site. If you have HEM or PT, you can filter these sorts of things.
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Raoni_Poker
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 265
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I have the same experience. Just tighten up and play for value because they will pay you off.
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Johnny Cashout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 71
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I would definitely prefer playing against the loose fishy villains that bluff incorrectly. Play TAG and choose your spots wisely, granted they will suck out a few times but that will only encourage them to keep up their bad playing and as long as you +EV you'll profit long-term
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Current Goal: Breaking 50NL
Wish me luck!!!
Check my profile for my personal poker blog!
Constructive criticism welcome!
-looking for comments as I post my daily battles/struggles through 50NL full ring cash games!
Johnnycashout()com
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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The reason why you're winrate is higher playing against tighter players is because you aren't focusing on adjusting against the people you're playing against. Just saying dont bruff+valuebet=profit probably won't help you that much.
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
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Basically your theory would be correct if one site is full of more loose players and the other site have nittier players then the theory would work out the same in general. Don't know that would be enough to make up for other factors though if you're trying to figure out which site is better to play at.
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it  |
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supa
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 986
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I personally do better at nittier tables. I think it's a skill thing tho, I tend to spew more because of the "tough spots" that StarGrinder pointed out at fishier tables. The point that the author made I think is true because when the fish are pricing you out you have to fold more often, whereas the nits are constantly exploitable.
Obv it should be easy (simple) to win at the fishier tables, but variance is higher at those tables also, and a little spew can turn variance into a monster.
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“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”
Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
start using your brain more and vagina less
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: learnin'
Posts: 2,039
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i spew way more vs nits because the very fact that they exist tilts me beyond repair. clogging up waiting lists for would-be good games, grinding out their 1bb/1k hands profit over 10 tables. HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT? (disclaimer: i'm talking about 10/8/2.4 nits here. you know who you are)
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm
i spew way more vs nits because the very fact that they exist tilts me beyond repair. clogging up waiting lists for would-be good games, grinding out their 1bb/1k hands profit over 10 tables. HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT? (disclaimer: i'm talking about 10/8/2.4 nits here. you know who you are)
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glad you added the bit in bold
some ftr reg has me at 17-13 over a decent sample of full ring. Winrate is about spot-on tho
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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i dunno how anyone can hate nits?? what would you prefer opponents to be? winning players?
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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I love playing against nits. Run them over until they raise, then muck without the nuts. Perfect table is 3 nits to my left, 2 loose limp-calling stations to my right. Cha-ching.
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Openside
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supahaole
a little spew can turn variance into a monster.
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Haha. THIS! Im pretty sure if Confucius played poker he would have coined a similar truism, albeit less eloquently.
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scarface_0001
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One Pair
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
The reason why you're winrate is higher playing against tighter players is because you aren't focusing on adjusting against the people you're playing against. Just saying dont bruff+valuebet=profit probably won't help you that much.
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Actually my winrate is the highest when I play against loose passive players who play fit-fold. They make loose calls preflop and they fold to cbet if they miss. I can raise a lot of hands preflop against these players and make a lot of cbets and see them fold. If I hit TP with a good kicker and they hit TP with a bad kicker or a smaller pair they aren't going to fold and I can extract value on at least 2 streets if I have a better hand.
What don't bluff means? Don't cbet? On fishier sites there are many aggro fish with high VPIP who have 0 fold to cbet or low fold to cbet. Against these players usually I check-fold on the flop and play much tighter preflop than against loose passive players. But I feel instead of check-fold I should 2 barrel more often ??? I have Hold'em Manager. What stats are good to see if they fold to 2 barrels often? fold to turn cbet? This means fold to 2 barrel or fold to delay cbet?
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OngBonga
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,053
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"What don't bluff means? Don't cbet?"
Don't cbet every time you raise. You should cbet if you think worse hands will continue, or better hands fold. You should not simply cbet because you raised, it's a pissy leak.
Don't just do it because it's what you think you should do after raising. It's not, when we raise pre flop, we should profile the player(s) who called our raise. Those players who cbetting against is profitable (those who fold to a cbet a high % of the time), then go ahead and do it. Those who call cbets often, we've either got to keep firing or not cbet at all. Do you really want to triple-barrell your missed JTs? Is he going to c/c/f enough times to make this line profitable? If not (probably not), don't cbet it against someone we know is probably calling.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
ongies gonna ong
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