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PAnimal

02-09-2006, 02:51 PM Post subject: Question on calling machines

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 15

I asked this before in a previous post some time ago, but now that I have more hands under my belt I feel I have a better grasp on what to ask.

My question is on calling machines.

I learnd the hard way not to bluff against them, even though I have read this in multiple post and books.

Now lets say you see the flop with a strong or mediocer hand.

What is the correct way to play against a calling machine with these hands. If they call me or check to me on the flop/turn/river?

1. If I hit the flop with astrong hand.

2. Miss the flop with a strong hand. What if I am in last position and it is checked to me?

3. Hit the flop with a mediocer hand.

4. Miss the flop with a mediocer hand. What if I am in last position and it is checked to me?

They always seem to call my bets in every situation. No matter how weak or strong my bets are.

Quick note on my style:

I am a agressive player (I have been told I am eagle status on some PT and semi loose/agg/agg on others) it is isnt out of my league to put a pot size bet down on flop or turn, bluff or not, and to get out on river if I feel like I am dead money. I really like to put a pot size bet on every flop if I hit, have a draw, or it is checked (or weak bets) to me in last positon.

This is my kryptonite so far. I am solid untill I run into these guys, then I start to play weak and I feel I lose control and go on tilt.

Thanks guys this will really help me alot. You guys always seem to give great advice. Hopefully I can get some too!!

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DaHorror

02-09-2006, 03:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Yesterday I had a player at my table that was even more than the textbook definition of a calling station.
Any pot that he was in, if he had any piece of the flop (or any draw - flush, straight, gutshot, overs) he would call pot bets (not allin on the flops or any crazy overbets - but pot bets or less).

He had actually doubled his money at the table...how?
Multiple times he was calling down to the river with middle pair when the other player was flat out bluffing with nothing. Once he was smooth calling to the river with trips - never raised anywhere along the way - just check/call the whole way. Another time or two he was drawing to a flush that hit.

Doh! Then it started biting him and he lost all his winnings and was back down to his buyin...several times he was smooth calling with ... overcards. Even the pot bet on the river on a board of 64324 he called on the end with K7o...opponent held 66.

So if your calling station is in the hand with you, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't bluff or bet into draws...but, you generally want position on this person, and you should slow down if you are betting middle pair/underpair/draw when you don't improve on the turn.

So - calling stations equal perfect for paying off your made hands or draws that hit...terrible for betting with middle pair and overcards - at least beyond the flop, unimproved past that.

It is annoying to have to change your style because of one player but...that's part of improving your overall game, right?

Rondavu

02-09-2006, 03:21 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

The answer is simple. Only put money in when your hand is currently the best one. This can be when you both miss the flop, but for now stick to only putting money in against calling stations when you DO hit the flop, or have a very strong draw.

As for you describing your style, stop visualizing yourself with a set style, so that you can change it on a whim to suit the table conditions. I myself "enjoy" being aggressive, but it doesn't mean I am when I shouldn't be. You need to begin formulating counterstrategy to the players you're sitting with. Here's an example...

You sit down at a table, and every time someone raises, 3-4 people call. Furthermore, people are trying to float on second pairs, generally taking their hands too far postflop. Are you going to be overaggressive on a table with a lot of money going in the middle? That would be stupid. You're going to abandon anything overaggressive, and instead feast on value when your hand is made.

You narrow your raising range to only premium hands. You limp 99-JJ for set value. You open up your calling range when pot odds are presented to you out of position (You have 9To in the BB with a 3xBB raiser followed by 3 callers ahead of you). This is because these tables tend to give you lots of drawing odds postflop.

There are different things you do against different table textures. Against a table full of intelligent loose aggressives for instance, you would become loose passive with a wider range half the time. You would tend not to encourage the aggressor from shutting down the betting by letting him know he's beat, instead calling down his larger and larger purchase attempts on safe streets. If the board looks like it could draw against you, then you become aggressive, since the opponent may make bad calls anyway if they're drawing on you. When you get better you get fancier, doing things such as using a coordination that neither of you are hitting against an opponent.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

PAnimal

02-09-2006, 04:22 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 15

Meybe I am set in my playing style to much. I feel if I change I will be to weak at times and might be taken advatange of or played against when I dont what them too. I really like to play strong it is my primary way of playing unless I notice someone it loose passive or aggressive and likes to see 100 % of flops and likes to call all bets.

So basically I should play good hands the same as him untill I hit it big and then play aggresive untill he is broke? This is what I was thinking, but I need to practice it. It is counterintuative for me to this this I guess. I always want to bet and play agg.

I have tried to change my styles, yesterday I got AA against a calling station. I was playing loose passive agaisnt him. He ended up beating me with a 35o hitting a stright 2 on the river got a 6 high strieght. I cant win to lose agianst these guys, but I only lost a little. He beat me 3 hands in a row all at that time and took all my money (it was only 2 bucks, big deal). This was the first time in a long time I lost my stack in a ring game, all to a cold caller. He out drew AA, J10s flush w/ stright flush capability on river, and trips. All of which I had the lead each time and he won on river with utter crap/normally safe cards hitting. He was calling me all the way down on a gut draw, bottom pair, etc. 15 minutes later he went all in with AKs and lost and 5 min later went all in again with QQ and lost and he left, lol. When he left I made my 2 bucks back off the guy that beat him and left the table even.

Thx guys, more ideas and help would be great!

Rondavu

02-09-2006, 04:35 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAnimal

I have tried to change my styles, yesterday I got AA against a calling station. I was playing loose passive against him.

Passive against a calling station when you hold a made hand is incorrect. You should play tight-very aggressive when you hit. Bet large chunks.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

PAnimal

02-09-2006, 04:44 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Passive against a calling station when you hold a made hand is incorrect. You should play tight-very aggressive when you hit. Bet large chunks.

Ya I agree, I realized this after I lost the hand and was pretty mad at myself for it. Ohh well. Note not to do that again, I thought I was going to be smooth and failed.

Rondavu

02-09-2006, 07:04 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Don't get fancy until you learn how to extract maximum value on a regular basis. There are multiple reasons for this, which include making it more difficult to get away when you're beat if you don't have a strong ability to read opponent strength. Just bet your hand for now. Trust me, the opponents are too stupid to believe your bets mean they're beat.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

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