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neva07

12-06-2005, 06:28 PM Post subject: question about fish and their betting

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 26

Ok here's a situation I found myself in a few days back.

I don't have the HH so I'm kinda shaky on details.

10NL
I have QQ in MP. folded to me and I raise to 0.60 because this table is loose and this should get a few callers.

Only the BB calls so now the pot is about $1.25

Flop comes out
4 6 8 rainbow
and villian checks to me.
I say great and bet $1.00 or 4/5 pot.

villian calls. pot is $3.25
turn is 10

Villian bets $.10

What does this mean?
Does he want me to raise?
Is he just an idiot and has a 10?
Is there a general meaning for this type of bet (ie super small bet compared to the pot) from the fishies?

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r8ed

12-06-2005, 06:37 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

It could mean two things:
1. He thinks he's making a blocking bet and hoping you will just call so he can try to hit the river.
2. He hit a real hand - two pair or better and wants you to raise.

90% it's #1. Either way he's a donk and you should raise his ass big.

Get used to this. People at 25NL and below love the minbet into bigger pots.

siknd

12-06-2005, 06:40 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

its not necessarily a fishy play. ppl are always so quick to assume everyone is a fish but themselves.

it means one of two things:

1. defensive bet because hes picked up a draw, and wants you to make the mistake of giving him wicked odds to see the river. its the out-of-position version of raising to get a free card. dont fall for it. a reraise is definitely in order. if he comes over the top, now you go into a huddle.

2. trap bet because hes got a made hand. he doesnt want to give you a free card, and wants to show weakness. you decide onthe liklihood that he has you beat and act accordingly.

of course it really is possible that he is a total fish, and horribly misplaying two pr. in that case, take the free river and see what develops.

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

siknd

12-06-2005, 06:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 359

lol. beat me to it.

'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '

EricE

12-06-2005, 06:41 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 894

It’s a probe. A draw usually calls. A made hand raises to what he would have bet…half pot or whatever. For whatever reason he wants to see how you feel about your hand.

One possibility is that he had a split pair of 8s and now is worried about the T so he tests the waters. A raise and he lets it go.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

BankItDrew

12-06-2005, 06:48 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

This is bet to gain info at a cheap price.

91% of the time I will bet the pot and see a fold.

8% of the time villain will raise and I will fold.

1% of the time villain calls, drawing the draw.

This bet is usually from a donk, hoping you call so that they can see the river for 3% of the pot price.

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neva07

12-06-2005, 06:50 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 26

ok so now you decide to raise because you're not letting him get to the river cheap.
So you raise to $2.50 or something.
If he folds great.

What if he calls?
What if he pushes?

r8ed

12-06-2005, 07:51 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Raise full pot.

If he calls then he's probably still chasing but could have two pair or a straight - maybe a set. See what he does on the river. Show down cheaply here most times if you are still holding one pair.

If he pushes, then he probably has you beat. That's why we said there are two scenarios. He just told you it's #2, so fold. When passive fish take a stand, they usually have something.

rounder1112

12-08-2005, 01:01 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 2

What if the fish is just calling out the nut hand from a weaker player?
EX.
You have AJ ( JJA) Q Q
Fish has AQ
He fishes for AA with a .10 bet because he is unsure even a fish can hit the nut draw

Last thing you want to do is raise his pot.

Pingviini

12-08-2005, 07:40 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

Believe me. You want to raise. If I see people raising like that OOP I will re-raise closer to the size of the pot with any 2. Most of the time they will fold --> +EV

Quite rarely I see them actually trapping with a set and it will most likely happen stakes as low as this.

If you have the QQ and he calls after your re-raise I would check if river completes any reasonable draw and _perhaps_ make a value bet of 1/2 on river. He might just have 8 or T but you never know. If you get re-raised on turn or on river you have to let go. I dont think these guys are making moves like those without solid values.

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

Vrax

12-08-2005, 10:09 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

This bet means the same as "check". If you call you basically "check behind".Don't try to pickup tell about "minbet", it can mean "I aintgot shit", "Im drawing" or "i have the monster" or "I have something" or "I have two cards and maybe you will auto-fold". Just play your cards, raise with goods, call that donkbet if you want free card and use the judgement if you get re-raised after your REASONABLE bet. Until that, that minbet means "CHECK".

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Pingviini

12-08-2005, 10:41 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

This bet means the same as "check". If you call you basically "check behind".Don't try to pickup tell about "minbet", it can mean "I aintgot shit", "Im drawing" or "i have the monster" or "I have something" or "I have two cards and maybe you will auto-fold". Just play your cards, raise with goods, call that donkbet if you want free card and use the judgement if you get re-raised after your REASONABLE bet. Until that, that minbet means "CHECK".

That bet usually means more weakness than strength, and to them it looks like you have good cards when you re-raise them instead of just betting even though they are practically the same thing here. Question here is whether you want to be a card player or a poker player. Dont just play YOUR cards. Make them think that you have better ones and make them fold. If they are calling stations do not naturally do this.

Betting with goods and checking with draws isnt good enough. Also bet with draws, also bet with bluffs when they seem to be weak, but you have to know when to give up if they decide to call that bet. Comes after experience (or at least should

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

Vrax

12-08-2005, 11:05 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

"...Just play your cards" should be "...Just play as usual - the same way as when checked."

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

jailhousejoe

12-08-2005, 11:22 AM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: UK

Posts: 32

As Vrax says, on early streets play it as a check and take a cheap card off if you want one. If this bet is presented to you on the river and you have been betting the whole way, you shouldnt figure it means 'I am weak' and automatically come over the top. Try and figure whether he was on a draw and has hit a real hand; it'll be worth 20c if you just call that fishy min bet and expose the dumb play to the table when hes just flushed. Otherwise, bet for value; bluff; fold - whatever action you were intending to do had he just checked.

Pingviini

12-08-2005, 11:40 AM

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

Ok. Perhaps the folding equity isnt as big at nl10 compared to higher stakes. I take your word for it. Still I find minbetting OOP weaker than checking.

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

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