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bef99hwk
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10-09-2005, 06:52 PM
Post subject: Question about betting...
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 107
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Say you pre-flop raise with an a-k or a-q, or maybe even a few of the other possible combinations (10-j, j-q, etc). You get a caller or two but the flop comes low cards, such as 4-7-9. Should you just check this or bet to see if the other person has something and take the chance of at least a facecard coming? I hate to preflop raise and then check when lower cards come and then have the other person bet. Then I think I might have to fold due to them playing a pocket pair or even pairing one of them. Thanks!
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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a flop like that favors a continuation bet, but you should probably give it up on 4th if the guy calls.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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okietalker
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Party 100/200NL
Posts: 53
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Try NOT raising with some of those hands you described outta position and see who that works for you.
Raising TJ or QJ outta position is a recipe for disaster long term.
We can debate AQ outta position. Some do, some don't. I tend to win more money with AQ when I play it in position without a raise. After all, I WANT AT in there with me when I have AQ not just hands that dominate me.
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Just my opinion (and I'm probably wrong) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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and ya, raising with good hands in position is key to beating NL for a healthy rate.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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fender55
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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Aggreed. If you make a preflop raise with these hands, continuation bet the flop, but don't keep going if you get a call unless you card hits.
Also, position position position! If you raise AQ on the button and the flop hits rags, your op will check or bet to you rather than the other way around. It makes the decision on your part a lot easier and that is why position is so important. Get all the information you can when you decide to raise on these hands.
I especially dislike raising with QJ, even if I hit top pair, I don't have top kicker. I'm careful with QJ and JT.
My 2 cents.
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Cory
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Raising with QJ at a full table (unless it's folded to you on the button or close to it) is not a smart move. With that said, if the flop comes all rags and you're in position I will always make a bet of at least 2/3 the pot and I will normally re-reraise if it's bet to me, the reason being is that you represented a big hand before the flop, and if you reraise them they will often throw their hand away if they hold something like top pair or something else similar to that. I'm obersvant to make sure I'm not facing a rock who will surely be holding a high PP. The situation varies obviously, but reraising a probe bet is very profitable under the right circumstances.
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fender55
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 52
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Yeah, raising with QJ is not smart much of the time.
I agree with if you represent a good hand you should keep representing it to the flop. If they call on the flop, they'll certainly call the turn also, mainly because they want to see the river, and sometimes, if I think they're drawing and I see the river card doesn't hit, I'll raise again and usually it seems that I get a fold, if I'm hu by the river and the board is all rags. Thoughts on trying to buy the pot at the river if you feel op probably holds second best hand?
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Cory
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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generally id check a low flop for two reasons
i like to check raise so a low flop to me is fun because i wait for an opp to assume i have missed overs then i go right back at him with a big check raise if i hold an overpair/set.
but also im not against calling flop bets with overs/sets and then hammering the turn and putting opp in an akward position
therefore for me checking a low flop would not necessarily look like weakness if opp is paying any attention to table image
if this is how you do or can play then i think checking low flops gives you a chance of bluffing or getting paid off on the turn by making big bets either with or without the goods
obviously if you always bet or dont use the check raise or arent prepared to let opps see the turn then this strategy may not work. therefore you have to check/bet in equal proportions depending om how you know the opp will play on the flop. will he call you down with middle pair no matter what you bet, does he call you with trash or suited stuff below T9 for example.
yes it CAN look obvious that you have missed the flop but think about how you can play hands on the flop/turn and what you can represent and you open up more options than just checking/continuation betting the flop after you raise preflop
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