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Question about AA. Limit not related.

  
 
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TheMaverik91
Old 08-07-2010, 06:34 AM     Post subject: Question about AA. Limit not related. #1 (permalink)  
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K,

So here I was tonight at a 6-max 2Nl game. And a weird question struck me after holding AA. Maybe it's late and I need to sleep and it'll all make sense in the morning, or maybe I have a proper question here.... First, the hand in question:

Villan just sat down and is 100/0 across one hand (I know... big help there, lol)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($2.04)
SB ($6.21)
Hero (BB) ($3)
UTG ($1.99)
MP ($2.03)
CO ($1.34)

Preflop: Hero is BB with ,
1 fold, MP bets $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.22, MP raises to $0.58, Hero raises to $3 (All-In), MP calls $1.45 (All-In)

Flop: ($4.07) , , (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($4.07) (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.07) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.07 | Rake: $0.20

Results below:
Hero had A, A (three of a kind, Aces).
MP had K, K (three of a kind, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $3.87


Now the question I have (and I know that this sounds OMFG retarded) but are AA's really something I should be trying to get all-in preflop. Is it really a constant +EV move? I know in the above situation I was in a good spot: I was able to produce a heads-up scenario so it's just me and him, but not let's say I know this villan, and he only calls my first raise. I know that he has a thing for suited connectors.... now flop comes.... monotone hearts. How much am I always going to profit here?

We know he's hit his flush 1/4th of the time.... wait ... maybe I am too tired..... because that mean's he only hits 25% of the time, giving us a 75% win rate... so it's long term +EV.....

Ok, guess I'll just leave it with this and go to bed: In your personal or mathematical opinion, should you be trying to get it all-in pre-flop, or should it be all-in post flop (assuming board isn't big threat).

What about when you get raised, but two of the limpers call that raise (making 4 people total in this pot)

Or say whatever reason, you know your going to have atleast yourself and 2 other people who WILL be calling you no mater what pre-flop. How do these different scenarios effect how you play AA's.
"Looking at my old posts, I realize how much of a DONK I was. Time to change that and TRULY learn how to play poker. No more ego. No more pride. Just me, my cards, and the great knowledge bestowed upon me by FTR."
 
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spoonitnow
Old 08-07-2010, 06:49 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 First off, your 3-bet size sucks and gives MP sufficient implied odds to call and stack you with hands like small-mid pocket pairs.

Second, getting all-in pre-flop in a cash game with AA is only -EV in very specific situations which involve you being multi-way against another player with AA and a few other players with specific types of hands. For example:

Code:
  10,388,326  games    44.843 secs   231,659  games/sec

Board: 
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	15.089%  	01.78% 	13.31% 	        184465 	  1383090.17   { AA }
Hand 1: 	15.083%  	01.77% 	13.31% 	        183768 	  1383098.67   { AA }
Hand 2: 	21.895%  	21.83% 	00.06% 	       2267867 	     6647.17   { 87s }
Hand 3: 	12.902%  	12.84% 	00.06% 	       1333628 	     6647.17   { 22 }
Hand 4: 	15.691%  	15.63% 	00.06% 	       1623372 	     6647.17   { 33 }
Hand 5: 	19.341%  	19.28% 	00.06% 	       2002609 	     6647.33   { 44 }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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celtic123
Old 08-07-2010, 10:45 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 have you ever ditched AA because of a multiway pot, cash game ?
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spoonitnow
Old 08-07-2010, 03:22 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic123 View Post
have you ever ditched AA because of a multiway pot, cash game ?
No, and you shouldn't ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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TheMaverik91
Old 08-07-2010, 04:10 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
First off, your 3-bet size sucks and gives MP sufficient implied odds to call and stack you with hands like small-mid pocket pairs.
lol, good to know you feel the same way. After I posted my hand last night, I sat there and read my own post and was thinking "That 3-bet pre-flop was way too weak. Knowing what I know now, he had Kings, he could have simply called my three bet and easily stacked me on the flop, because he hit his set. Why did he hit his set? Because I allowed him by giving him a cheap flop. This situation could also extend to hitting two pair, trips, or flush/straight draws. I can't let people view too cheap."

I know the reason I bet that small (I was trying to keep him in the pot), but that's a horrid reason. Keeping people in pots is what looses you money..... well not exactly... but you get what I mean I hope.

Ok, having a hard time reading the stove.... is it saying we only win 15.6% of the time against 33... or they only win that much against us? And how come their percentage goes up as the value of the card goes up. We're holding Ace's.... so shouldn't the win% be the same for anything lower than AA? (Except end's like 22 and KK where they only have one side open for a straight)

And no, I've never dumped Aces pre-flop, except for once where my connection timed out on me, and I couldn't get back in time.... but it was a great save since the guy hit a set anyways.... so I would've lost, lol.
"Looking at my old posts, I realize how much of a DONK I was. Time to change that and TRULY learn how to play poker. No more ego. No more pride. Just me, my cards, and the great knowledge bestowed upon me by FTR."
 
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spoonitnow
Old 08-07-2010, 10:25 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Your equity is so low in the example I gave because of all the times you tie with the other AA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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OngBonga
Old 08-07-2010, 11:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I did some mashing on stove and quickly found that AA is 80%+ heads up against every range I could be bothered to put in, and as far as I can figure we're always more than 60% three handed, apart from both villains being on a KK+ range, which brings us down to 58%. I can't see there's any better way to play aces than to get as much money in pf as is possible. Pre flop, it's simple. We're dominating everyone. This is when you know your money is going in good, when you know you're not making a mistake by putting more in, and you know your opponents are making a mistake by continuing.

*edit
We know they're making a mistake by continuing if we raise enough!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
ongies gonna ong
 
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-07-2010, 11:16 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 lol power minraises itt, you have AA 100% that's cute.
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RoyalFlush
Old 08-09-2010, 05:12 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic123 View Post
have you ever ditched AA because of a multiway pot, cash game ?
I have never heard of doing this. ESPECIALLY pre flop. That would be absolutely atrocious.
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